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Caroline

Rigging GalaDM with TSM Workshop

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Caroline,

 

I think you are doing a great job on the shoulder area. Keep in mind, that the human shoulder has been the bane of not only animation riggers, but people in the motion analysis and physical therapy fields for years.

 

The shoulder is one of the most complex joints and motion systems in the human body.

 

GREAT JOB!

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Thanks, MMZ :)

 

Jason - When I've finished rigging, I'll have to do a test to see how well she animates. I would think some smartskin would be necessary, although she will be quite heavily weighted. The way I see the difference between Smartskin and cp weighting, is that Smartskin watches the rotation of one particular bone and interpolates between the rotations, whereas weighting is more 3-dimensional, and follows all bones that are weighted. Anybody got a better differentiation?

 

Thanks for the link, excellent overview of my first few posts - I will include it in my first post. I got overview movies on my CD, but I don't know if they are part of the freeware distribution.

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Ihave a problem ,maybe someone can help ,I hope .When I make a pose and a constraint there is no leg bones in the dropdown for the target and using the picker tool doesn't work,any idea how to get the bones to show in the target box

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Are the leg bones hidden? I just had that problem where I could not select a bone because it was hidden in the PWS under the model's bones.

 

Also, depending on the hierarchy, I don't think you can select bones where you might get a circular reference. Do you have a screen shot of the hierarchy and the bone you are trying to constrain to the other bone? (I'm a bit hazy on that one though.)

 

My question to anyone who has used TSM advanced fingers - did your thumb constraints get created on the Rigger? Mine didn't.

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Steve, where in the hierarchy is the elbow fan located? It should be a child of "1 right upperarm2" bone and you constrain it to "1 right lowerarm 1" bone.

 

So I'm unsure why you are looking for leg bones (which are showing up in the menu).

 

I also see you are editing pose 9, is the bone already constrained in another pose?

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Mark everytime I make a pose to try a new constraint it makes a higher number even after I deleate the old pose, I was looking for the target for the elbow constraint in that grab but when Im on the elbow there is no arm bones showing in the target and when Im on the knee fan there is no leg bones showing in the target box ,heres a grab of the higherarchy,I think its right but maybe not I would love you to take a look please

grab2.jpg

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I think I got it I needed to click on the empty background to make the bones white to be able to hit it with the eye droper tool ,I made the knee a child of uper leg 2 and constrained it to lower leg 1 and uper leg 2 at 50 % enforcement on both ,is that ok Mark

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The hierarchy is right.

 

When you delete a pose, you need to delete it from the user properties and the relationship folder. That's why you keep getting higher numbers when you create a new pose. It looks as though you deleted it from the relationship folder, but not the user properties. This may be the problem, the user properties may be holding some kind of information that is preventing you from selecting the correct bones.

 

Delete all poses from the relationship folder AND the user properties and save the model. Then create a new pose and try again. If that doesn't work, I'll take a look at the model file.

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You posted as I posted. Glad you got it straighten out.

 

You don't need the constraint to the upper leg 2, it's a child of it and it already orients like it.

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Stage 8 - the Head

 

Jaw first.

 

I have not yet covered 'Easy CP Weighting'. So here it is. I'm not quite sure why I haven't been doing this as a first step, and then finetuning. Is this what you other riggers do, or do you just weight each CP from scratch?

 

1. In modelling mode, create a group called "Jaw Weighting", which includes all the CPs that will be affected by the jaw movement - take out the top lip, teeth, tongue, etc.

 

post-9673-1217817634_thumb.jpg

 

2. Hide all but this group. Hiding the other cps means that they will not be weighted, even though the weighting falloff might include them.

 

3. All head CPs should be attached to the head bone. In side view, click the head bone, and add a bone for the jaw (clicking the head first ensures that the jaw is under the head in the hierarchy).

 

post-9673-1217817677_thumb.jpg

 

4. Rename the bone "Jaw", and in the properties, change Has Falloff to ON.

 

post-9673-1217817684_thumb.jpg

 

5. The aim now is to have the inner 'pill' cover all cps that should be fully weighted to the jaw, and the outer 'pill' cover all cps that gradually fall off to the head.

Put your mouse over the percentages in the PWS, and click and drag to the right and left to change the percentages. You will see the pill size change. Remember we are working in 3d, so any change to X is visible from the top view.

 

6. When you have the inner and outer pills positioned, right click the Jaw bone, and choose Compute CP Weights.

WARNING - if you do not click the Jaw bone, but right click and choose Compute All CP Weights, then any weighting you have done so far will be lost.

 

7. Create an action, and test out the jaw movement in the action. Return to bones mode, and fine tune the positions of the pill. Remember to choose Compute CP Weights (just for the jaw bone) before testing in the action.

 

These are the values that I have used:

 

post-9673-1217817693_thumb.jpg

 

And this is what it looks like from the front:

 

post-9673-1217817700_thumb.jpg

 

8. This is mine, but there is one neck spline CP that I will fine-tune using Edit CP Weights in modelling mode.

 

riganim017.mov

 

And spot the deliberate mistake :) The lower teeth should be included.

 

9. In modelling mode, control click the tongue group and the lower teeth group to choose them. Hide other CPs, and in bones mode, assign all the cps to the jaw.

 

It is easier to do the teeth after the rest, because there is no falloff with the teeth.

 

GalaDM_RigStage008afterjaw.zip

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Is this what you other riggers do, or do you just weight each CP from scratch?

 

For the face, I do it all by hand, Caroline. The upper teeth, upper gums and upper throat is going to be weighted to the head at 100%, the lower teeth and lower gums are going to be 100% weighted to the jaw and everything else I adjust as needed. I haven't used falloff for setting up a standard character.

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Is this what you other riggers do, or do you just weight each CP from scratch?

 

It so happens that I've been working on process for rigging a face using just bone falloffs to get most of the bells and whistles like smiling/frowning/ooo/mmm.

 

It's not ready for prime-time yet but there is promise in bone falloffs.

 

Of course alot of time is spent on positioning the bones just-so... jury is still out on whether it is faster than manual CP editing.

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I got it rigged now and its looking prety good ,only problem is the wrist and forearms are twisting as soon as I turn tsm constraints on,the arm lower 1and 2 have the roll handels pointing back as the rest .If I turn the hand it gets the twist out of the forearm but not the wrist and the hand is then upside down ,I triede changing the roll handels on the hand but its the same any idea what I got wrong

Oh is the the right place to post ,Im sorry to mess up your thread Caroline

a thought just acurd to me maybe theres a way to interchange the face aswell as clothes ,just a face mesh with decals on mmm maybe not

grab3.jpg

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Oh is the the right place to post ,Im sorry to mess up your thread

Not messing up, this is a "workshop" - only too glad to have you in it. I plan to gather up all my corrected posts into a pdf at the end, and put it into first post, so feel free.

 

Are you sure about the roll handles? That fixed mine - can you zip up the model and post?

 

interchange the face aswell as clothes

I'm thinking about head interchanging. I think it would be better to interchange whole heads than have a complicated mesh. That would entail having a neck that widens in a pose to accept the new head, but that would be really easy. Just have a bone on the main model where the head should be, and treat the head as clothing.

 

Alternatively you could have a really complex mesh, and use pose sliders to rearrange the head features. Depends on whether you are doing realistic, or cartoon, I think. Cartoonish = less splines.

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It's all to do with the hand - I suspect when you rigged, the hand's roll handles were pointing forwards (I could be wrong though :)). I set all the hand bones (lots of hidden ones too), so that the roll handles pointed backwards, and it works.

 

I have to go out now, and work tomorrow - if you don't figure it out, I can detail all the bones I changed.

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Thank's a lot Caroline ,yea work gets in the way don't it

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I got a few moments:

 

1 right hand control

1 right hand (this is the original culprit)

1 right hand attacher

1 right inter hand

 

Oh, I think there were only 4 - it seemed like more before :)

All these bones need their roll handles turned towards the back, like the lower arms. I believe that the rigger would have worked out OK, if the right hand had been pointing back first.

 

One of the great things about diving in so deep like this into a rig, as that I've lost my fear of the unknown. I've always been terrified before of touching a completed rig, in case it breaks, but the TSM rig (and any other, I supposed) can be changed after it has been completed.

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Thank's Caroline that works graet ,any idea how to copy wiaghting to the other side ,Iv done the right shoulder and can't remember how or what cp's go to what

This has allways been something I just can't get to grips with,but your doing this is making things a lot better ,your a diamond

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I think you copy weights using the MirrorBone plugin available from Steffen Gross's site:

 

http://www.sgross.com/plugins/index.html

 

I guess I will be using and describing this shortly, but I am still catching up the bits I have covered, but not completed yet (toes, knees, copying mesh to the other side), before hitting the spine and hip, so as yet I don't know much about it.

 

Search for "+mirror +weights" then there are a number of threads covering it.

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Catching up

 

There should be nothing new here.

 

Knee - see Elbow rigging.

 

I rigged the knee like the Elbow, but it seemed to need less weighting.

 

Ankle - see wrist.

 

Ankle with fan and some weighting

 

Toes - see fingers

 

Toes all weighting, no fan.

 

These are the numbers TSM has assigned to the toes:

Little 4

Ring 2

Middle 1

Index 3

Big toe 5

 

Each toe consists of toe -> toe2 -> toe3, with toe being embedded in the foot.

 

These are the weighting I gave them:

 

Center of toes 50% toe2 and 50% toe3

Spline connecting toe to foot 50% toe2 and 50% toe

One CP above and below foot 80% toe 20% toe2

 

post-9673-1218018246_thumb.jpg

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Thank's for the link I will look into that ,now Im glad I got shoes

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Stage 9 - Spine and Hips

 

The hip is a combination of the "spine" bone, and the "1 right leg" bone, similar to the right arm and right upper arm bone in the shoulder.

 

In the same way as you did the shoulder, weight the spine and right leg in an action window in Muscle mode, tiled vertically with another action window in either Skeletal or Muscle Mode, so you can interactively see the result of the weighting.

 

I think I have worked out my weighting method, which is how I have done the spine and hips - I think it needs a few days, as I have had here, to figure out a workflow that suits yourself.:

 

1. Using base model, create a fan bone, with the "spine" as the parent. Edit the Setup Relationship, and create the 50% orient-like constraint as before. As for the position of the fan bone, I did not finalise this until some way into weighting. With the model in bone mode, and an action window tiled, you can move the position of the fan bone about, and see exactly what difference it makes to the joint.

This is where I settled on (the red bone):

 

post-9673-1218018587_thumb.jpg

 

2. Create an action over about 2:00 secs, that illustrates where weighting is needed.

 

3. Create a second action just so you can edit the weights (safer to do this in an action window, so you do not accidentally move the CPs)

 

4. Have the two windows tiled vertically, both in muscle mode. Left is editing, right is the animation you created in step 2.

 

5. In the right window, move the timeline slider to a point where there is a problem

 

6. Often the problem CP is buried and hard to pick, so in the left hand window click each CP until the problem one is highlighted. Weight the CP in either window and click Apply, until the problem is corrected.

 

7. Click OK. Slide the timeline slider to check the problem is resolved.

 

8. Repeat from step 5.

 

9. Save the model under the next version name, then run TSM Rigger on it.

 

10. Check that the weighting works in the final rig. If it doesn't, save the TSM rig under a different name (like "deletethis"), and reload the saved base model. In the action window, make the CP work in the final rig, and then put the same weighting on the base model. If you have checked steps 3-6 enough, then there should only be a couple of CPs to have to do this step with.

 

I have not been able to get the hip exactly right, so I will be able to fix this up as an example of SmartSkin when fully rigged.

(And I seem to have lost my hip animation, due to excitement over MirrorBones, so I will have to recreate that tomorrow :))

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After doing the spine and hips, I redid C/F/A, to update any of the mesh on the right hand side.

 

I deleted all Left side bones too, as these will be recreated by the MirrorBone plugin:

 

1. Click the top left leg bone in the model.

2. Click the bone name in the hierarchy

3. Press * on the numpad to expand all.

4. Hold the Shift key down, and Shift click the last bone in the left leg hierarchy

5. Keep the Shift key down, and press the Delete key.

 

Repeat for left arm bone.

Delete left leg target.

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Stage 10 - Mirrorbones plugin

 

Model to practice MirrorBone on:

GalaDM_RigStage010BeforeMirror.zip

 

Steffen's MirrorBone plugin is AMAZING. Download it here:

http://www.sgross.com/plugins/

Unzip and install the hxt into your hxt folder (under Program Files\Hash v15.0)

 

Make a named group of the left half, and save the model as a starting point.

 

It will probably take a few goes to fix up any residual problems with your model.

 

This is what I had to do (I probably made every mistake it is possible to make):

 

1. I had to go through EVERY CP and delete any 0% weights. - I will ask the question in a separate post :)

2. Ensure that the centre spline IS on the center.

3. Check that the cps are mirroring - turn on Mirror Mode, and move a cp on the left. If the corresponding one on the right does not move, the tolerance is not sufficient. I changed my tolerance to 0.05. Important - Remember to turn off Mirror Mode.

4. All body, spine and head bone positions should have their Start and End X at 0 - I was not accurate enough early on, so I went through and changed all these.

5. Change "Right" to "right" :blush: - even though the "case sensitive" option mirrors bones, it does not include the weights for these bones.

 

While making these changes, save often under a different version number (throughout all this rigging process, I have been saving the model, not a project).

 

To use MirrorBones:

 

1. Select the left half group

2. Right click the selected group, and choose Plug-ins > Wizards > MirrorBone.

 

These are the settings I used:

post-9673-1218019234_thumb.jpg

 

When the operation has finished, you will have a group called "Unassigned CPs". Click this group, to see what CPs have not been assigned to the bone. I had just a few in the head. Assign these CPs to the correct bone.

 

(Isn't this MAGIC? It copies both bones and mirrors weighting. I could not believe how well it works - after I'd fixed up my model :))

 

If you have a bad result, and there are a lot of "Unassigned CPs", then check the list above, to make sure that everything in your model is correct.

 

Mirror Constraints:

 

If the weighting seems to have worked out OK, the next step is to mirror all the constraints.

 

1. Either create a new action and keep the action window open, or edit the Constraints Relationships and keep the window open (this makes sure that the constraints will be copied at 50%). If you don't do this, the 50%s will be set to the default 100%.

2. In the model, right click, and choose Plug-ins > Wizards > MirrorConstraints.

2. Search for: right

3. Replace with: left

4. Click OK.

 

All your fan bone constraints will be mirrored to the left hand side. (Also magic :))

 

Save under a new name - I keep saying this, but do it more often than I say.

 

Even though you have mirrored bones, you must still run TSM Flipper, otherwise the TSM Rigger will crash.

 

Right click in Bones mode, and choose Plug-ins > Wizards > TSM Flipper.

 

Nothing will happen (I hope).

 

Right click in Bones mode, and choose Plug-ins > Wizards > TSM Rigger.

 

Wait for your model to be rigged.

 

Test.

 

If necessary revert to the saved model before TSM Flipper, and fine tune the CP Weighting.

 

I had to fix up the jawbone a little bit, and I still have to fix up some weighting on Gala's sides. After I do an animation, there will probably be more….

 

Tomorrow I will post the 'almost finished' model, and hopefully an animation, so that you can see Gala in action after this stage.

 

:ph34r: - sleepy icon.

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Question for the Experts, please

 

I had A LOT of corrupt weightings - ie, weights that had the correct percentages, but an extra duplicate weight with 0%.

 

To fix them, I had to select the whole left side of the body, Edit CP Weights, and go through EVERY SINGLE CP and Delete Weight for each 0%. At least 2/3 of the CPs had this duplicate 0% weight.

 

1. What did I do wrong for this to happen?

 

2. Was there a quicker way to fix it? :)

 

Thanks.

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Question for the Experts, please

 

I had A LOT of corrupt weightings - ie, weights that had the correct percentages, but an extra duplicate weight with 0%.

 

After Mirrorbones or TSM ?

In both cases please provide a model with such a problem .

 

2. Was there a quicker way to fix it? :)

 

For me , writing a plugin :D

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This accurs if you go into the edit weights menu and not edit the weights before hitting apply or done or the X button to close the window. It will also do this if you change the weights, hit the apply or done and change the weights again.

 

If you don't change the weights, select one cp from the list and hit balance selected before closing the window. If you do change the weight and hit apply or done, close the window first before changing the weight again.

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After Mirrorbones
- Definitely not, Steffen - that was brilliant. The only issue with the plugin was that I did find that the bones called "right" copied and weighted correctly, but the bones called "Right" copied, but did not weight (I had unticked case-sensitive). I fixed that by renaming the "Right" ones "right".

 

Did I say that plugin was wonderful? :) I was so scared I'd have to do the other side by hand.

 

Do you have a public plugin to fix the 0%, then, Steffen?

 

Mark - did you report it? Or shall I? I did notice it doing that, but I could not believe that it happened on so many CPs.

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No. I think this has been reported before. I don't think they were able to fix it or never got around to it.

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Do you have a public plugin to fix the 0%, then, Steffen?

 

As I had said , first I need model where this error occurs .

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No. I think this has been reported before. I don't think they were able to fix it or never got around to it.

 

I will look into this again. But , I had think it was solved .

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Steffen - how about this one - simple cylinder has middle spline weighted 50% bone 1, 50% bone2.

 

Cylinder.mdl

 

Click the left cp on the middle spline, it shows 50% each. Click the x at the top right to close the window.

 

The weighting is now corrupt, to see it, edit the same cp again, and it has a 0% there. If you edit it a third time, it comes up with an error message that it is repairing, but doesn't. The weight has to actually be deleted, and applied, before it will work.

 

Should I be doing this here? Or should I make a Report?

 

Actually, if I had been clicking Done, instead of the x, I don't think this would have happened. Not sure.

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Just a nonsense post here, to show how happy Gala is :)

 

dance.mov

 

(BVH animation, where the shoulders don't work properly, and the knees sometimes flip.)

 

But it does show up some areas where I could fix her up, especially a couple of points in the hip.

 

Smartskin at the weekend.....

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There are a few places that need some work, but it's looking good so far, Caroline. Fun clip!

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Thats looking good ,so much better than my eforts ,nice job Caroline

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Finger rigging seems to always be a challenge. There is one thing I notice on most 3D finger motion (not just in AM... but lots of 3D), and it's something that is hard to put my finger on (I'm Vern. pun intended.)

 

Fingers and hands always look... "spidery" to me. Its that "stick" like motion. When the curl they don't... squish up or change volume enough. I almost prefer the version where the extra splines "overlap". The overlapping/squishing of splines is bad yes, but the fingers curl and compress together more realistically. I haven't been keeping up on the forum with this type of thing so maybe it's already been done, but I was thinking of some more fan bones on fingers (ouch!) that would really really really "fatten" the fingers BETWEEN the joints as the finger curls. I would love to see a hand/finger rig where the fingers... look... like fingers when they bend. Most times they look like... bending tubes. I've not often seen a good finger (except when I cut that guy off in traffic the other day but that doesn't count.)

 

-vern

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Sorry for bringing up a subject from 3 pages back... I'm catching up.

 

Finger rigging seems to always be a challenge. There is one thing I notice on most 3D finger motion (not just in AM... but lots of 3D), and it's something that is hard to put my finger on (I'm Vern. pun intended.)

 

Fingers and hands always look... "spidery" to me. Its that "stick" like motion. When the curl they don't... squish up or change volume enough. I almost prefer the version where the extra splines "overlap". The overlapping/squishing of splines is bad yes, but the fingers curl and compress together more realistically. I haven't been keeping up on the forum with this type of thing so maybe it's already been done, but I was thinking of some more fan bones on fingers (ouch!) that would really really really "fatten" the fingers BETWEEN the joints as the finger curls. I would love to see a hand/finger rig where the fingers... look... like fingers when they bend. Most times they look like... bending tubes. I've not often seen a good finger (except when I cut that guy off in traffic the other day but that doesn't count.)

 

-vern

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Or should I make a Report?

 

Make a report please .

 

For the time, before this problem is fixed in A:M , I have added to the mirrorbone plugin package a plugin, that will correct such problems .

Redownload the plugin from my pluginpage. It's called rmweight ,but appears in the menu as "Check CP Weight's" (starting from a selected model)

(mac v15 version is updated too)

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Sorry for bringing up a subject from 3 pages back... I'm catching up.

 

Finger rigging seems to always be a challenge. There is one thing I notice on most 3D finger motion (not just in AM... but lots of 3D), and it's something that is hard to put my finger on (I'm Vern. pun intended.)

 

Fingers and hands always look... "spidery" to me. Its that "stick" like motion. When the curl they don't... squish up or change volume enough. I almost prefer the version where the extra splines "overlap". The overlapping/squishing of splines is bad yes, but the fingers curl and compress together more realistically. I haven't been keeping up on the forum with this type of thing so maybe it's already been done, but I was thinking of some more fan bones on fingers (ouch!) that would really really really "fatten" the fingers BETWEEN the joints as the finger curls. I would love to see a hand/finger rig where the fingers... look... like fingers when they bend. Most times they look like... bending tubes. I've not often seen a good finger (except when I cut that guy off in traffic the other day but that doesn't count.)

 

-vern

 

If there's enough geometry and it's weighted well, you can get some decent results. I have an early Quicktime test posted for Bertram's hands here that isn't too bad on the finger squishing. I'm going to be doing quite a bit more with it, but that is a good start. There aren't any fan bones in those fingers, just a bone for each joint...there is plenty of overlapping in there.

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Vern, I'm glad you brought up fingers, as that's what I'm re-working on now. I think I agree that I prefer when the splines overlap a little when squished - that's what my own fingers do, but I thought maybe I just have fat fingers (though not as fat as Bertram's). Do elegant fingers squish?

 

--Edit --- I was going to go back on 'advanced fingers', because I was having all sorts of troubles with fan bones not hiding, and the thumb not working at all. However, I must have accidentally messed up TSM while I was 'hacking' a few pages back, and I have uninstalled and reinstalled TSM, and it works fine :)

 

And I re-watched the advanced fingers movie, and the movement of the base of the fingers definitely seems worth having. (With non-advanced, you get one bone with roll handle to curve the fingers very simply; with advanced, you get two bones, and movement of the base of the fingers, so that the palm can be shaped.)

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Movement is not at all easy with advanced fingers,

What exactly was the problem? Remember that "advanced fingers" control the last two bones with one control bone. You rotate the blue ring to move the tip.

 

and the advanced thumb did not rig at all, so I had to reconstruct the bone and constraints.

did "adv thumb" show up in the list of things to rig/not rig when you ran Rigger?

 

 

 

Is it OK if I change to 'normal fingers'? Will I be missing out on anything important?

 

Normal fingers are fine but you give up individual control of each bone to do poses where the bones are not all equally curved.

 

fingerstab0.jpg

 

However TSM "advanced" fingers are not my favorite. That's why I made the alternate finger script that writes a control bone for each finger bone and retains control of the "metatarsals"

 

edit: never mind, I see you figured it out. :)

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Thank you, Steffen - the rmweight plugin works very well.

 

One small unimportant thing - I had to run it twice for this model - it finds 17 weight errors, then still will not mirror, and finds one more weight error afterwards.

GalaDM_RigStage008l.zip

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Thanks, Robert - I did not notice you were watching while I edited.

 

I shall go back and relook at your hack afterwards, but I am a bit nervous of stuffing up my TSM plugin again for the moment :).

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The more I think about it the more I think my issues with fingers may be related to good "posing" or animation. If you look at your own hands "at rest" or even in other positions they are never "straight". They always are "curved" slightly bent. Hands and fingers naturally have "elegant poses". You can't really put your hands into an "ugly" or unatural pose. Yet in 3D it is easy to get strange awkward poses. I think my eyes are looking for a more natural position. Hands are probably as important to get right as a face. when something is "off" it really stands out.

 

I have always had problems with odd looking 3D hands.

 

-vern

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I shall go back and relook at your hack afterwards, but I am a bit nervous of stuffing up my TSM plugin again for the moment :).

 

You can always put the original script back if the alternate doesn't work out for you.

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Hi Caroline,

 

Nice animation.

 

though it makes clear to me ,that her arms are way too short. ( I would say about one handlength )

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