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The testing on the 2008 rig has nothing to do with the installation, it's how the rig performs for the animator. I need to know that the rig won't breakdown in animation situations. Why do you think I posted the Thom model? There is no reason to post an installation rig if the rig isn't sound. Why have people install a rig that doesn't perform correctly and complain about it later? If noone tests and gives me feedback on the model that is already rigged, I have to do it myself.

 

The squetch rig took years to get it to the point it is now. It also went through some major stress testing in the process, with the TWO movie. I've been only working on this for about 3 months now and there are still things I'd like to add to it (some sort of IK scaling capabilities).

 

The face rig is nearly complete, but I do have some changes I need to make though, not a big deal. I also need to test it with the MirrorBones plugin, to see if that causes any problems with installaton.

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Why have people install a rig that doesn't perform correctly and complain about it later?

 

They wouldn't complain if it had a pre-release warning on it that everything or nothing could change. The best place to test a rig is in the field as was demonstrated with the squetch rig. People want some sort of ownership of it. Right now it's just someone saying "test my rig".

Obviously usage as well as installation would be tested.

I guess I'll be going TSM2 for now....why spend alot of time on rigging when I'll be changing it later anyway. If you want lots of feedback, my offer remains open.

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This is a bit off topic but I thought here would be best ,I have just got AM15 and would like to know if the models I madr in v14 would be ok in v15 and would this rig work ok when its ready by using the v14 models in v15

,sheee thats complicated

cheers Steve

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I threw together an installer and did a quick install. After installing I assigned and rough weighted the right side of the model, selected a specific bone in the rig called "MirrorBones" and ran the plugin. Then opened the model in an action (all FK/IK poses turned off in the user properties) and exported the model. As I thought, the IK setups were in place, except for a few. I have to find a way to have these positioned and scaled when exporting. But all in all, the install went very well.

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AMv13_2008_rig4h.mdl - I played with it a little this morning, so here is some feedback.

 

I notice that the bending of the thumb controller works by the the roll handle, but the bending of the fingers (en masse) works with the tip of the bone controller. It's a little inconsistent. (I always find roll handles hard to grab. Is there a setting I can change in the UI to make it easier?)

 

You can grab the "Right_Hand Geom" bone and just move it. Is that intentional?

 

The "Right Hand Target" bone moves when the shoulder bone moves. Oh, I see, that's what the "Right IK Hand Lock" is for. Nevermind.

 

Haven't figured out yet what Steady Right IK Arm is for yet.

 

Love the Chest_Controller. And the Hips and the hip_controller. I'm slightly surprised at how high the hips controller is, but it doesn't seem to have any negative consequences and works for animating AFAICT. Could Hips and hip_controller be combined into a single bone?

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I notice that the bending of the thumb controller works by the the roll handle, but the bending of the fingers (en masse) works with the tip of the bone controller. It's a little inconsistent. (I always find roll handles hard to grab. Is there a setting I can change in the UI to make it easier?)

The finger controller controls the fingers, the thumb is independent from them. All the fingers have the same controls as the thumbs (they are hidden with a pose). There is an option for the thumbs to move with the finger controller, it's turned off by default. (look in the hands folder)

 

You can grab the "Right_Hand Geom" bone and just move it. Is that intentional?

Sort of. It keep the hand indendent from the arms. I'll see what I can do with that.

 

Haven't figured out yet what Steady Right IK Arm is for yet.

In IK arms, with this pose ON (IK Hand Lock OFF), the arm will maintain orientation when the shoulder and chest controllers are rotated.

 

Could Hips and hip_controller be combined into a single bone?

I'm not sure I know what you mean. If I understand correctly, why would you want to do that? If you turn off all the steady poses in the spine folder, the hip null works just like the hip null in the 2001 rig. You can also place the hip null anywhere you like in the modelling window.

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I guess the phoneme tests weren't good

I think there bloody good and its good that you can alter them.I would love to try the rig in a model I have ready but you kno how wonderfull I am at rigging :lol: Youd be getting wrong information

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I sent out the face model to a couple of people to test the controls. There are a few things I want to add yet, and whatever the testers feel it needs, before posting the model for testing and an installer.

 

I think I have an installer ready for the 2008 rig, but I want to try to add some kind of scaling capabilities to the rig before I post it. I also have to write up some instructions for installing them both.

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I have a few things to take care of first and write up some instructions. I gave Ken some half-assed info on how to install it, he managed I guess, I haven't looked at his install. The rig wasn't quite ready to be released, I threw it together for Ken. I hope I worked out all the bugs.

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I found a few problems with the installer, but I think I got it worked out. The problem was the position of the balance setup, which no one pobably uses anyway, but I wanted to keep it in the rig. I did another test install and things seem to be in order, I used Michel's robot model for the test. I want to give it a quick once over and I'll post the model. Hopefully, I'll be posting the installer soon, just need to write up some instructions.

 

As for the face rig, I had a few suggestions for it from the testers, so I've been trying to add a few things. I'll try to post an example model as soon as I can.

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Well I decided to release the face model with the rig. I have some of the suggestions implemented, but not all of them. There are a couple that are going to take awhile, so I figured I would let the rest of you try it out.

 

All the controls can be rotated and some of them can be translated as well. I suggest using the arrow keys for translation, the controls are very sensative.

 

Comments and suggestions welcome.

v13_AM_Face2.zip

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Hi Mark,

 

 

That`s terrific work!!!

 

Its a pity I just have expierience infidelling around a little with 2001 and TSM ( walkloops and such ) up to now

and never have done any faceanimation yet..

So I cant say anything about flaws and such.

 

For my feeling and purposes both rigs perform very smooth and easy to handle.

( Therfore I guess somekind of Osipian interface for the facerig won`t be needed and is not in the planning, right? )

 

The only thing I am missing is some possibility to alter the size of the eye-black to create even cartoony overdone

emotions for terror or desperate love for instance.

 

Or maybe I am just too stupid to see it`s already there or its done in a different way?

 

Hoping I will be able to try install that fantastic-rigs into my own characters soon.

 

Thank you a lot Mark!

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Hi Mark, thank you for rerigging Robby. One thing I wasn't able to do without the installer was to place the foot null correctly,like it is now.

One little thing, the thumb rotater doesn't seem to curl on Z axis. I really like your finger setup with the ability of rotating fingers on Zaxis,

and curl with the rotator.

I like the face rig; I guess it would be possible to use that setup to control decals the way Xtaz experienced in another thread?

 

Michel

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Thanks Jake. Scaling the pupil is usually a muscle pose, it's not something that is built into a rig. Most eyes are modeled differently, so trying to rig for that is difficult. I could set it up in this model, but it probably wouldn't be part of the rig. I could set something up for a set of standardized eyes, but most people would have already modeled their own set.

 

Thanks Michel. I'll take a look at the thumb. I think the problem has to do with the fact that I only used 2 of the 3 bones for the thumb, do to the models geometry. The face rig could be used to drive decals, but it's way over built for it. A simpler rig would be the way to go for that.

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I notice that the bending of the thumb controller works by the the roll handle, but the bending of the fingers (en masse) works with the tip of the bone controller. It's a little inconsistent. (I always find roll handles hard to grab. Is there a setting I can change in the UI to make it easier?)
The finger controller controls the fingers, the thumb is independent from them. All the fingers have the same controls as the thumbs (they are hidden with a pose). There is an option for the thumbs to move with the finger controller, it's turned off by default. (look in the hands folder)
Aah, I made the fingers visible and they are the same. I was just thrown off by the finger controller vs the rotators when I didn't have "Show Right Finger Controls" turned on.

 

It is still a little weird to be rotating something coming out of the knuckle and having the finger bend in the opposite way. Unfortunately, the alternative (having the rotation angle being in the same axis as the bending of the finger) would probably be hard to arrange the bones. Unless it was just a little bit above the knuckle?

 

Haven't figured out yet what Steady Right IK Arm is for yet.
In IK arms, with this pose ON (IK Hand Lock OFF), the arm will maintain orientation when the shoulder and chest controllers are rotated.
I see, {Right,Left} IK Hand Lock and Steady {Right,Left} IK Arm are mutually exclusive. This is a universal thing with rigs, I think, knowing when settings are mutually exclusive.

 

Could Hips and hip_controller be combined into a single bone?
I'm not sure I know what you mean. If I understand correctly, why would you want to do that? If you turn off all the steady poses in the spine folder, the hip null works just like the hip null in the 2001 rig. You can also place the hip null anywhere you like in the modelling window.
Nevermind. For some reason I didn't notice the differing functionality. Sorry for the confusion.

 

The only other thing I've noticed so far is that in IK mode on the legs, it's easy to get the knee to go into weird directions when the foot target is closer to the body. However, it is probably easy enough to animate anyways.

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Quick "How would I" question, not quite specific to the AM:2008 rig though I'm trying it on AMv13_2008_Rig4h...

 

Say I have the character kneeling on one knee -- right one. So his left knee is up in the air. To get up, the character places his left on on his left leg (Left Thigh_Geom). I want to constrain the left hand to the leg. What is the easiest way to find the bone from within an action?

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Thanks, I'll look into the knee/foot controller issue.

 

For the left hand on the left leg, turn ON the Left IK Arm and turn OFF the Left IK leg, position the Left Hand Target on the left leg. Then constrain the the Left Hand Target to the Left Thigh_Geom bone (use a translate to and orient like consraint with compensate mode ON) and then turn the Left IK Leg back ON.

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I told him that I did not yet have the skill set, but Robbie kept nagging me.

 

He wanted to express his gratitude for his new 2008 bones. So a week or so later my digital wastebasket is overflowing with crumpled up electronic attempts, and I feel like a preschooler bringing home a finger-painting.

There’s a ba-jillion flaws & mistakes, but such as it is, here it is.

 

At least Robbie’s off my case now.

Thanks__Mark.mov

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Thanks Mike.

 

Finally found some time to work on the face rig. Added individual eyelid controls. I have a few more details to work out, but it's almost there. Next is the lip curl.

 

Very cool, Mark!

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I was able to get the eyelids to close correctly when using the left/right eyelid controllers and the main eyelid controller in the Y axis, but not the main controller in the X axis. There seems to be some kind of circularity problem the way I had it set up, that I can't figure out, but can be adjusted manually.

 

I also had to add contraints to the setup, so much for expressions only (except for limits).

 

The eyelids close in a standard position. Should I try to see if I can get them to close in the rough shape they are in?

 

Here a test render.

eyelidsTest.mov

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I personally think thats graet as is ,no need for any more ,it work's really well and looks good .Your maybe giving yourself unnesasary work,your to much of a perfectionist as is its the best Iv seen

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Thanks Steve.

 

Jake, what I mean is, after creating a shape with the eyelids, I could have them close in the shape (averaged between the upper and lower lids), instead of having them close normally (with no added shape to them). If you scrub through the clip you'll get a better idea of what I mean.

 

It doesn't matter, I'm not changing it.

 

Frankly, I'm tired of working on it and have no ambition to do so, so I plan on taking a break from it for awhile. How long that will be, I don't know. It doesn't really matter at this point.

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Thanks Steve.

 

Jake, what I mean is, after creating a shape with the eyelids, I could have them close in the shape (averaged between the upper and lower lids), instead of having them close normally (with no added shape to them). If you scrub through the clip you'll get a better idea of what I mean.

 

It doesn't matter, I'm not changing it.

 

Frankly, I'm tired of working on it and have no ambition to do so, so I plan on taking a break from it for awhile. How long that will be, I don't know. It doesn't really matter at this point.

 

For the face rig in the Squetch Rig, the solution was another layer of bones with "aim at" constraints in the "Blink" Poses...I don't know if that will work for this situation, but I thought I would mention it in case it does.

 

It's looking fantastic, Mark!

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>Frankly, I'm tired of working on it and have no ambition to do so, so I plan on taking a break from it for awhile. How long that will be, I don't know. It doesn't really matter at this point.

 

That would be really disappointing for me.

 

Did you run into any unforeseen troubles?

 

If so, couldn`t you just release a version of the status, you have now?

It seems to be pretty usable already as it is?

 

:>( Jake

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Thanks Gene.

 

David, I'm already using aim at constraints. I just wanted to know if anyone wanted the eyelids to close in the shape that the controllers formed. The other issue I had was with trying to tie the X tranlation axis of the main eye controller to the blink, after creating the lids into a different shape, it causes circularities.

 

Jake, right now I have other things to take care of. Writing up instructions isn't one of my best things, so it my take awhile. I'm still not sure how I want to present it either.

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>Jake, right now I have other things to take care of..

 

that you didn`t loose the fun of working on this , so short before finishing...

 

 

> Writing up instructions isn't one of my best things, so it my take awhile.

 

 

>I'm still not sure how I want to present it either.

 

and be willing to pay, if it were in the price-range of TSM or AMpainter.

 

Hope I am not pestering you too much, just think that your rigs could be a huge leap forward for me.

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Mark ,would it be easier to make a vidio tut ,as you place the rig ,maybe a few vids ,Don't know what is a good program to use but Im sure theres good free ones around that ppl on here could lead you to

just a thought would save you all that writing

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