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I was able to isolate the constraints with the lag and create a percentage pose to adjust the amount of lag for the fingers. The pose percentage represents the amount of frames, the finger with the most lag (index finger), should be delayed. I have to figure out how to set this up for the thumbs, the ON/OFF pose for the thumbs creates an issue to set the lag pose.

 

This pose can be animated. (see clip)

 

If there is any interest for this update with Thom, I'll post it. If not, then this update will be in the version I post with Frankie, whenever that may be. I have alot of work to do on Frankie before I post the model, so I don't know how long that will take.

lag.mov

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Thanks Martin and Steve.

 

I was able to add the thumb to the lag pose.

 

Started working on the face. I got the eyes and lids rigged. The setup uses one controller, like the fingers. The eye and lid bones have expressions tying them to the controller, no constraints. There is one constraint, but that is a translate limit on the controller. Hopefully this mean you'll just have to position a master/parent bone for each eye to the center of the eye geometry and assign cps.

 

I hope to tie the brows to the controller for some movement, while still having their own controller.

 

Everything is animated using the controller.

eyes.mov

cross_eyes.mov

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mtpeak2 Bravo! It's very interesting design for manages fingers and eyes!

How you defined weights CP?

Whether Probably to receive AMv13_2008_Rig4g.zip with visible bones for skining?

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I'm not sure I understand your questions Serg.

 

I assign cps in the modeling window and hand weight cps in an action.

 

The zip contains a rigged Thom model ready for animating. There is no installation rig yet. The bones showing in the Thom model are the geometry bone (there are a few control bones showing though). The bone names are setup to use the "install rig" plugin for hiding control bones and unhiding the geometry bones.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I finally got back to working on the face rig for the 2008 rig.

 

The rig is designed to use with Luuk's A:M Track or on it's own. I used the bones Luuk used as a base for the rig, which I added underlying controls for further control. The rig has 4 controllers which can be used to animate the face by itself or add further animation on top of an A:M Track action file. The controllers are setup Gizmo style and it's all expression driven. Each controller can be translated or rotated on the X and Y axis.

 

Here's a test using Luuk's demo A:M Track action file, from his website, with added movement from the controllers to change the models expression.

AMT_test.mov

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You've got some nice subtle movement in there.

Very successful I'd say.

 

I feel like I'm still years away from understanding enough of rigging to utilize it correctly but you give me hope Mark.

Thanks!

 

(I'm going to buy A:M Track this month!)

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I used the bones Luuk used as a base for the rig, which I added underlying controls for further control. The rig has 4 controllers which can be used to animate the face by itself or add further animation on top of an A:M Track action file. The controllers are setup Gizmo style and it's all expression driven. Each controller can be translated or rotated on the X and Y axis.

 

That sounds truly terrific ! Great results.

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Wow! Just checkin out this thread for the 1st time... (it does not show in my 'View new Posts'...hmmm) LOT of fantastic work going on here. SO- if I were to 'summarize' for my own benefit...this 2008 update to the original 2001 rig would be a drag-n-drop, scale-n-place, attach-n-weight animation RIG with advanced finger/hand control and facial bones already in place for AM/Track????

 

Check me if I'm wrong... it's looking FANTASTIC!

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Wow! Just checkin out this thread for the 1st time... (it does not show in my 'View new Posts'...hmmm) LOT of fantastic work going on here. SO- if I were to 'summarize' for my own benefit...this 2008 update to the original 2001 rig would be a drag-n-drop, scale-n-place, attach-n-weight animation RIG with advanced finger/hand control and facial bones already in place for AM/Track????

 

Check me if I'm wrong... it's looking FANTASTIC!

 

I am also amazed such a good rig can be installed just like that. I just rigged a model today with version AMv13_2008_Rig4.

It has advanced finger/hand control but no facial bones, and most of all, you have FKIK absolutely seamless switches.

I've attached the model if anybody wants to play around with the new rig. It was installed exactly the same way you would have done it

with 2001rig.AMv13_2008_Rig4gtest.mdl

 

Thank you Mark, it is FANTASTIC!

 

Michel

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I just wanted to say that I stumbled across this thread for the first time today, and I really really REALLY appreciate the work you are doing. I don't have time to test this yet, but I'm bookmarking this thread and I have no doubt that I will find this very useful in the future. Please know that your efforts are truly appreciated. And Animus, thanks for posting that model -- it will be a quick way for me to investigate this rig further.

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I am totally amazed at the fact that more people DL'ed Michel model (which has rig problems due to the method of installation) than the Thom model that I posted. I just don't get it. I really wonder why I even bother.

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I am totally amazed at the fact that more people DL'ed Michel model (which has rig problems due to the method of installation) than the Thom model that I posted. I just don't get it. I really wonder why I even bother.

 

There are sure to be several reasons but I suspect its mostly because that was the nearest download to grab once the topic got bumped up. In my browser Michel's post is also at the top of the page. This hides previous posts from view.

 

I can't really speak for others but I downloaded Michel's because I was curious about what he was doing with your rig. I suspect that may be what some others did too. Two people just now discovered this topic. New people are discovering your rig!

 

I wouldn't read too much into the download numbers.

Those numbers will lie to you. For instance? I haven't even had time to open Michel's file yet. At least I opened yours! ;)

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Hi Mark,

 

First, I hope that I didn't make a mistake posting a model, I should have asked you before.

I got overly enthousiastic when I found that I could install your rig with fairly usable results.

I tought it could revive interest in what you are doing.

I have animated on TWO and SO with the Squetch rig you and David created,

and I have said it many times before, it is awesome. So much that I have much

less interest working with TSM or 2001rig, they work well but the Pentium2 worked well and I won't buy one.

I would think many people have tried to install the Squetch rig, but only a few reached completion.

I am interested in rigging and I understand constraining and relationships, I could build something

like 2001rig from scratch, but nothing close to the Squetch rig or the rig you are building now.

I suspect many people assumed that it was another superb rig that they couldn't easily install,

so I would think that is why you didn't get as much feedback as you have expected.

Saying that, I am absolutely not blaming anybody for the Squetch rig being hard to install, it is such a nice rig done freely.

The fact is that there isn't any easy-to-install rig right now making use of the not so new FKIK switches(all switches actually) implemented

in the program; I come back to that because for me it makes a rig so much more versatile.

I think your work is very very important, and I have much respect for your talent and dedication.

I for one sure hope you keep developing this promising modern rig.

 

Michel

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No Michel, you didn't make a mistake. There are some issues with the scaling method though, that's why there's a need for an installation method and an installaton rig.

 

David did most of the creating of the squetch rig.

 

The problem with the squetch rig is the recompensating of constraints after the rig is installed. That's what I'm trying to avoid with the 2008 rig, which I have been able to do so far.

 

I have continued to work on the facial rig, which for the mostpart is completed. As it is now, it's a standalone facial rig that can be installed in any model. I have installed it in 3 models so far and I'm finding it quite easy to install. In fact, the only reason why I completed it was, someone actually was willing to pay me to do some facial rigging on a few models for them (that doesn't mean I'm for hire).

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I downloaded the 'Rigtest4' model instead of Thom for these reasons:

 

- It was later in the posts...

- I wanted to mess with the fingers, I don't think Thom HAS fingers, so I wanted to see if this one did...and it did!

- I wanted to see what a new user could do quickly, as claimed.

- I'm tired of Thom, personally.

 

I hope you don't discourage on your quest...as it is a worthy one. SOME of the downloads may have been redirected from the 'Fellows' forum when Martin gave a link to this thread and mentioned the great work you were doing here.

 

PS--- LOVE the finger controls, very natural... GREAT idea including facial bones for AMtrack... And the rest of the rig is quite easy to animate with. GREAT WORK!

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Thanks John.

 

The Thom model I posted has hands, but no face. I added the hands so I could create the rigging for the 2008 rig. Thom will not have a face, eventually I will post the Franky model fully rigged, but probably not until I have an installation rig ready. I may look and see about finding a head from a model and post it with the face rigged for testing, when I have time.

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Well, I'm on my 4th install of the face rig, 3rd for my client with 2 more after that. The rig installs pretty easily, I've only had to translate and scale one bone to position the rig so far. I have the brow, cheek and sneer bones with falloff turned ON. This roughs in the weighting pretty well. The eyes, eyelids, jaw and lips have to be manually weighted (lips probably could be set with falloff to rough the weighting in, I'll have to test it). I would like to post some test renders, but I'm not sure if my client wants me to, that's up to him. I'm sure he'll post something when he has something to show.

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Cool.

 

I'm not sure where I want to post it though, here or the Wannabe Pirates forum. What do you think?

 

P.S. I want to get a hold of your Stalled Trek characters too. Maybe test installs of the 2008 rig with the face rig. :) Love those characters.

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Either is fine by me, but I would think this topic would be the better place to show off the rigging.

 

Hahaha... I was looking at the Captain Krok model just before my iMac went belly up. (Maybe the hard drive crash was revenge for abandoning him!) Hard to believe that was over a year ago now. This Wannabe Pirates movie was supposed to be "easy." :-)

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The blue Tom download is kind of hard to find.

In fact can`t find it at the moment right know.

Where is it gone?

 

And I think what made the other model especially interesting was the fact that the rig seemed to be easily transfered to one`s own model.

 

I also setting great hopes into that new rig.

 

Thank you very much!!

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Neat to see more rigging research being done.

 

I've thought it would be neat to have a standard set of geometry bones, and then be able to install a rig on top of that. For example, I create my model, import geometry bones, translate and size them, assign points, do CP weighting, etc.

 

Then, I can do a 10-second procedure that would install the 2001 rig, or the TSM rig, or the Squetch rig, or the 2008 rig. Maybe it would involve dragging the rig onto the model in the chor or action and there would be a link to the rig under the link to the model. Basically, the rig is like the marionette controls and strings, and the geometry bones are the things the rig strings attach to.

 

The other thing is that the animator animates to the rig, not to the model.

 

This would take a huge amount of programming, I'm sure, but I thought it would be fun to mention.

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For the mostpart Chris, your idea sounds good, but each rig you mentioned has a different geometry bone set, so I don't see that happening.

 

I'll have to test, but the 2008 rig almost does what you want already, I may need to add a few more constraints here and there (I'm sure I do), but should be doable. After positioning the geometry bones (these are also the FK bones) open an action with all the the IK/FK poses turned OFF (FK mode). This should position the IK setups to the geometry bones. Export the model from the action and the control rig should be aligned to the geometry bones. I'll do a little more testing and updating to the rig if needed, to see if this is an option for installation. This would also allow you to adjust the geometry bone positions anytime, then just open an action again in FK mode and export the model.

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I've been working on the default phoneme set for the face rig. Here are a few examples of the default phoneme poses and a dopesheet. As I said, these are the default poses and have not been edited to fit the models. These examples have no other animation added to them, just the phoneme set and the dopesheet. My phoneme poses may not be the best (I will keep working on it), but I think these will give you a good base for lipsinc. Added facial movement, using the rig, will add to the animation. I may add minor facial movement to the phoneme poses as well.

 

I did find that using a dopesheet that some words are not created. For example, "using", I had to use "you" and "sing" to create the words in the dopesheet.

 

I finally got A:M Track. All I need is to get the marker stickers, and I may treat myself to a new digital camcorder as well. Then I'll be able to create new actions to test the rig even further, I know everyone is sick of the action I was using, I am.

 

Let me know what you think.

phoneme_test2.mov

phoneme_test3.mov

phoneme_test4.mov

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For the mostpart Chris, your idea sounds good, but each rig you mentioned has a different geometry bone set, so I don't see that happening.
Yeah, someone would have to modify the existing rigs to all have the same geometry bone set. If we came up with a name for the standard geometry bones ("A:M 2008 biped geometry bones"), then we could refer to the "2001 rig for the 2008 biped geometry" or the "squetch rig for the 2008 biped geometry" or the "2008 rig for the 2008 biped geometry" or the "TSM2 rig for the 2008 biped geometry".

 

There's one complication of what happens when one rig has requirements for different geometry bone sets than what the others need?

 

I'll have to test, but the 2008 rig almost does what you want already, I may need to add a few more constraints here and there (I'm sure I do), but should be doable. After positioning the geometry bones (these are also the FK bones) open an action with all the the IK/FK poses turned OFF (FK mode). This should position the IK setups to the geometry bones. Export the model from the action and the control rig should be aligned to the geometry bones. I'll do a little more testing and updating to the rig if needed, to see if this is an option for installation. This would also allow you to adjust the geometry bone positions anytime, then just open an action again in FK mode and export the model.
Wow! The description of what you mentioned goes way beyond what I knew was possible in A:M. But the basic steps you outlined sound like a much easier way of rigging a character with an existing rig!

 

Could this installation method also be applied to other rigs (e.g. Squetch)? You and Dave S are in frequent contact, can you guys coordinate to have the same geometry bones in the 2008 rig and squetch? (or are there restrictions for having similarities between the 2001 rig and 2008 rig? or is it too late in the development of the two rigs to make these things common?)

 

I'm imagining a world where I install the geometry bones, assign control points, do some CP weighting and maybe some smart skin if I have to all on geometry bones. Then whenever I want, I can open my character in the the rig action for any of the rigs, save the new version, and start animating in a new chor. If I ever need to change the model, I just change the original, then go through the 2-minute process of re-rigging the character, and I'm ready to continue. Or if the rig gets updated, I just go through the 2-minute process of re-rigging the character with the updated rig.

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QUOTE(mtpeak2 @ Sep 27 2008, 11:19 AM)

For the mostpart Chris, your idea sounds good, but each rig you mentioned has a different geometry bone set, so I don't see that happening.

Yeah, we'd have to modify the existing rigs to all have the same geometry bone set. If we came up with a name for the standard geometry bones ("A:M 2008 biped geometry bones"), then we could refer to the "2001 rig for the 2008 biped geometry" or the "squetch rig for the 2008 biped geometry" or the "2008 rig for the 2008 biped geometry".

 

There's one complication of what happens when one rig has requirements for different geometry bone sets than what the others need?

This will not happen, each control rig would have to be extremely modified, basicly rebuilt from scratch.

 

Could this installation method also be applied to other rigs (e.g. Squetch)? You and Dave S are in frequent contact, can you guys coordinate to have the same geometry bones in the 2008 rig and squetch? (or are there restrictions for having similarities between the 2001 rig and 2008 rig? or is it too late in the development of the two rigs to make these things common?)

No, other rigs are not designed to do this.

 

I'm imagining a world where I install the geometry bones, assign control points, do some CP weighting and maybe some smart skin if I have to all on geometry bones. Then whenever I want, I can open my character in the the rig action for any of the rigs, save the new version, and start animating in a new chor. If I ever need to change the model, I just change the original, then go through the 2-minute process of re-rigging the character, and I'm ready to continue. Or if the rig gets updated, I just go through the 2-minute process of re-rigging the character with the updated rig.

This is already possible with TSM2 rig. I'm hoping the the 2008 rig will only need updating of the relationship folder, which is drag and drop, if it needs it at all after posting an installation rig. The testing of the 2008 rig has been slow, since I haven't had that much help in that department. Right now I'm in the middle of working on the face rig, which will be included with the 2008 rig. I haven't posted a test model for it, since I probably wouldn't get any feedback on it anyway.

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The testing of the 2008 rig has been slow, since I haven't had that much help in that department.

 

What does this involve?

If you want feedback, I've already said I've got a character that needs a rig. I'd be willing to test the installation of it on him. Time is running out though.

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