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I spent some time upgrading the 2001 rig. I've updated and added quite a few things. Unfortunately, it's not compatible with existing actions. It's also a v13 or better featured model.

 

Added IK spine with switches

Added fan bones

Updated the IK Arms and IK Legs setup poses to be true FK/IK switches and separated them into left and right poses. (Arms still have a slight twitch though)

Updated the steady pose, broke it into left/right arms, head, chest and hips. It's now separate switches instead of a percentage pose

Added left/right knee follow foot percentage poses

 

I have plans for the hands, but haven't done anything with them yet. There's still alot to do, but I figured I'd post a rigged Thom model in hopes to get some feedback on the upgrade. Thanks

 

 

New update below

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Nice so far, Mark! I did a little messing with it and didn't find any problems...it seems to handle very well. I'll do some more testing over the next couple of days.

 

Top notch additions! Thank you for all of your hard work!

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Wow Mark. I'm loving this.

 

From my quick look Thom Green seems a very nice piece of work.

Bravo!

 

One question. (take what follows as words from a NON-rigger)

On my first test I did something crazy (not on purpose) and I rotated his upper arm around several times by accident. I never could seem to get it back in place without a little artifact in the shoulder area so just closed the model and started over.

 

I'm wondering if you could look at that from the aspect of someone that just quickly grabs the bone and rotates the Roll Handle.

Could a rotate contraint be placed on that to prevent such silly mistakes?

 

I've done this more than a few times with the 2001 rig too which is why it seems worth mentioning.

 

I'll post pics and try to recreate what I did if you are interested in seeing them.

 

Everything I've seen thus far... outstanding rig.

I'm wondering... is this rig a canidate for installation with TSM2?

Or... Is installation similar to the 2001 rig?

 

Thanks Mark!

 

Attached is just a quick pose I did. My second attempt. :)

2008Rig.jpg

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Maybe it should be called AM2008 since the old actions aren't be compatible and people will be trying to use old actions when they start out.

 

 

Some people will ask why it doesn't work and get an answer on the forum, but a lot of people will just stop when things stop working and be disappointed with A:M.

 

Alternatively, perhaps the fixes could be limited to those that won't create incompatibility. The change of the spine from FK to IK is probably the biggie.

 

Hey... if you wanted to be really clever... a spine that could switch from IK to FK like the Squetch arms and legs do... that would be huge.

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Thanks David.

 

Rodney, I could add an euler constraint to the bicep (I assume that's the bone you rotated) but then people would wonder why they can't rotate the arm further then it does. I'll look into the artifact though.

 

Robert, if you turn off the head, chest and hip controllers, you can use the original FK spine from the 2001 rig. They are on/off switches, so you can switch between each setup. So I'm not sure what you are asking for. Should I rename the poses to FK/IK?

 

I had a request for a heel controller, which I though about, but if I try to keep this rig compatible with existing actions, I can't. Right now you can make adjustments with animate mode off and turn off certain poses to get the actions to work.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

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New update.

 

Hands orient like hand targets in IK arms.

Hand lock poses lock translation and orientation of hands in IK arms, you can still position them manually though. (switch)

 

New update below.

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This may be the last update to the rig. I don't see any point in adding heel controls (requested by 1 person), updating the finger controls or possibly some face controls, if noone is interested.

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This may be the last update to the rig. I don't see any point in adding heel controls (requested by 1 person), updating the finger controls or possibly some face controls, if noone is interested.

 

I was reticent to ask for finger controls (steves gizmo?), face controls when you rejected implementing heel controls (or at least sounded that way) - I figured YOU weren't interested.

 

I would use this rig most definitely. It would have all that I would need for most characters. It even has some pseudo-squetching - good enough for me (last I looked)

 

Even I would be able to install it, probably.

 

EDIT: Just looked at your latest ver - looks like the pseudo spine stretchquetching - which was in the first version - as in could translate spine when chest controller was off - got "fixed" in most recent version - too bad. Can still stretch arms sorta when in FK mode (don't fix!)

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I did't reject it Nancy, I said in another thread I would look into it, I just didn't want to over complicate the installation. I also said I couldn't, if I were to keep it compatible with existing actions, but that went out the window too. So it's still a possiblity, if I decide to continue the updates.

 

Also, at the moment, there are only a few compensations (hope to get rid of), but if installed correctly, there are none at all.

 

I just turned off the translate manipulator options on the geometry bones so they couldn't be translated in FK. You should still be able to scale the FK bones, but it does do some funky things.

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I found 2 corrupt constraints in the steady chest and hip poses. I don't know how this happened, strange, since I didn't edit those poses. Sorry for the inconvience, everything should work properly now.

 

If you find any problems I missed, please let me know.

 

New update below.

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Ok, just for you Nancy, heel controllers. It even has ball controllers for you to play with. ;)

 

Right now the main foot controller is a bone instead of a null, I'm not sure it's going to stay that way though, maybe. If it does, the IK hand controllers will be converted over as well.

 

I haven't found any problems so far, so if you find something, let me know. And, some feedback would be nice.

 

New update below.

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Ok, just for you Nancy, heel controllers. It even has ball controllers for you to play with. ;)

And, some feedback would be nice.

 

Thanks Mark.

 

It's a little hard to give feedback - as I'm not sure who you're aiming this rig at.

 

I gather the non-null foot controllers are because you are intending to develop some TSM type scripts for installation? It's liveable - but using nulls are so so much better. Better clarity when animating

 

The ball controllers work real nice - Thanks. I did notice tho when using the ball contrioller, that a keyframe for the BalanceBase rigid shows up.

 

I did enable the back2 geom bone to allow for translation (changed the manipulator status in the model). That is a good enough squetch for me for the torso. I don't need the precise equation of maintaining volume.

 

One can also currently stretchsquetch the arms and legs both somewhat by translating shoulder, biceps, thigh geom (in FK mode). Not perfect - but usable.

 

I also enabled translation for the Head Geom bone, and the back geom bone. If you want to have a good laugh - allow the head geom bone to translate, turn off head controller, and then translate the head geom bone up somewhat. The fun part: now move the hip controller bone back and forth - watch the head go round and round like the hands of a clock.

 

uh...how is the head geom connected to the hip controller? - I know, I know I changed what you had - but still - very unexpected connection.

 

EDIT: just noticed that can also translate hand and foot geom bones - for even better stretching - yah good...

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If this were to become a Hash standard, I'd put another vote in for the hand gizmo. Face controls maybe if it didn't make it too complicated.

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Fixed the keyframe on the BalanceBase rigid. Thanks Nancy.

 

 

I like the nulls better as well, so the bone controllers will probably be replaced.

 

I thought about a TSM2 install, but the scripts can't handle the FK/IK switch poses, which most of them are. Maybe just to position the control rig.

 

Enabling the translation of the geometry bones breaks the switches, so I will probably set all of them to not translate. I'll look into some sort of scaling though, but not squetch. Maybe an IK stretch.

 

 

Sorry Ken, no hand gizmo, but I plan on some sort of finger controls. Thom doesn't have any fingers for me to start working on something. ;)

 

I'm trying to avoid expressions and compensates in this rig. No expressions means, no hand gizmo and squetching.

 

I believe there is a standalone version of the FACE (muscle pose version). So, I'm not sure I will add it to the rig.

 

 

Right now there are no compensates in this rig, I removed the last few that remained. I hope to keep it that way. I still have to work out a plan for installation, which I do have a few ideas.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

New update posted.

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I haven't a clue what to look at :D. Sorry.

 

My initial reaction is that I prefer to animate it more than the TSM rig, specifically the arms, but that would probably be true of the 2001 rig too. I love your feet. They are a big improvement. I would like fingers to roll, but could not test that.

 

I could not find the Back and Back2 bones that are in 2001, the Chest Controller does not seem to bend him sideways as well as the two bones together.

 

And I could not work out how to go about installing it :D

 

And now I'm going to ask a really dumb stupid embarrassing question, because I really don't understand the nuances of rigging.

 

Why don't I ever see a rig just made up of Euler constraints? Is it that it's for much easier control or best for FK/IK?

 

Like my arm model here seems to work OK for me, with no extra hidden bones, or complexities.

EulerArm.mdl

 

I'm not saying it would be best for animating, but just for simple stuff, or a character that doesn't come on very much?

 

And I would love to see simple reviews of each of the rigs, even from other people, because I'm sure they each have their place.

 

eg TSM - simple to install, but you need to keep the version before final installation. Squetch - total control over every least twitch, but you need many undamaged brain cells to install.

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And I could not work out how to go about installing it :D

 

Mark hasn't made an installer yet, Caroline...once he gets everything ironed out, that will follow.

 

And now I'm going to ask a really dumb stupid embarrassing question, because I really don't understand the nuances of rigging.

 

Why don't I ever see a rig just made up of Euler constraints? Is it that it's for much easier control or best for FK/IK?

 

Like my arm model here seems to work OK for me, with no extra hidden bones, or complexities.

EulerArm.mdl

 

I'm not saying it would be best for animating, but just for simple stuff, or a character that doesn't come on very much?

 

A character without any constraints at all could be animated. You wouldn't have IK, which would make some things more difficult, but it could be done.

 

Using just euler constraints would give you problems when the limits are reached in a lot of instances. It can be done, but you might end up fighting the rig sometimes.

 

The goal is to give the animator a system that doesn't work against them and is easy to use. Too much automation or too little can both cause extra work. Where there is something automated, there should be a way to turn it off if the animator would rather not use it.

 

Squetch - total control over every least twitch, but you need many undamaged brain cells to install.

 

I've got plenty of damaged brain cells, believe me. Once I get the update for the installation tutorial done, I think it will be a lot clearer. I'm not far from starting to put that together, once Bertram's modeling is finished I'll be using him for the tutorial.

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Thanks, David, I think I get the euler rig idea. And I guess you'd still have the problem of CP weighting to make the joints smooth anyway, and being such a small rig it would not be worth spending all that time unless you were going the whole hog.

 

but you need many undamaged brain cells to install.

Sorry, that was tongue in cheek - even I installed it once a long time ago to try it out. I was trying to give an idea of the huge complexity of it.

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but you need many undamaged brain cells to install.
Sorry, that was tongue in cheek - even I installed it once a long time ago to try it out. I was trying to give an idea of the huge complexity of it.

 

I should have put a :) in there...it's hard to read tone in a text message. Sorry if I came off wrong, it wasn't my intention, Caroline.

 

The biggest job in installing the Squetch Rig is CP Weighting, the second biggest is resetting compensates (hopefully, that will eventually be automated).

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I found a couple of things, Mark.

 

The first one is that when you rotate the foot using the "Right/Left Ball Controller", the knee didn't follow the rotation. I re-parented the "Right/Left Leg Hinge Roll Target" bones as children of the "Right/Left Ball Controller" bones to fix it.

 

The second one I didn't come up with a solution yet. When you rotate the head on the 'Z' axis and turn off and on the "Head_Controller" Pose, the "Neck_geom" bone does some unwanted rotating on the 'Z' axis. Maybe some roll targets and a couple of extra bones would get it to bake things in place.

 

I'll do some more looking and see if I can find anything else.

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Thanks for taking a look Caroline.

 

Fingers aren't setup yet.

 

Translating the chest controller will orient the the back bone while rotating the chest controller controls the back2 bone. Turning off the chest, hip and head controllers in the spine folder will show the 2001 rig spine and head bones.

 

There is no installation method yet, but it could be installed if you know your way around the rig.

 

 

Thanks for giving it a once over David.

 

I'm not sure if I want the knee to follow the foot when using the "Right/Left Ball Controller (it isolates the foot without turning the right/left knee follow foot pose off or adjusting the knee controller). I'll try reparenting and see how it works. Should I rename the pose follow foot controller instead?

 

I'll take a look at the neck and see what's up. It may need the same fix I used on the back bone.

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Fixed the neck roll problem. Thanks David for finding that. As for the knee following the ball controller, I like having it isolated, but I could add a second knee follow pose for the ball controller. How does that sound?

 

Replaced foot controllers with nulls.

 

 

Thanks for the input.

 

 

New update below.

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Fixed the neck roll problem. Thanks David for finding that. As for the knee following the ball controller, I like having it isolated, but I could add a second knee follow pose for the ball controller. How does that sound?

 

Replaced foot controllers with nulls.

 

I like having the knee and ball rotator isolated as well - and a knee follow pose sounds good for those who don't.

 

As for the neck roll problem - that might have been why I was seeing the funny behavior with the head geom going round and round when moving the hip controller (and head controller OFF) ... will check out your new update later

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As for the knee following the ball controller, I like having it isolated, but I could add a second knee follow pose for the ball controller. How does that sound?

 

Sounds good to me, Mark. I'll do some more looking tonight. Very nice work on this, as usual.

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Here an update with the "Right/Left Knee Follow Ball Controller" pose.

 

[EDIT] I posted the wrong version, here's the correct one. Sorry about that.

 

 

New update posted.

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I found a couple of things with the FK/IK switch for the legs, Mark. When using the "Right/Left Foot Controller" and "Right/Left Foot_Geom", everything works fine when switching. When using the "Right/Left Heel Controller" or "Right/Left Ball Controller", the "Right/Left Foot Controller" doesn't jump to the right position when switching, so the controls get out of place (especially if you move the "Right/Left Foot_Geom" in FK). The solution would probably involve some compensates, but I know you're trying to keep those to a minimum.

 

I'll do some more looking.

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One last thing, I think. When the "Right/Left Heel Controller" is rotated, then the leg is put into FK and then back into IK, the "Right/Left Ball Controller" is rotated and stays that way. I'm thinking it needs to stay perpendicular to the floor.

 

Other than that, I haven't found any other problems...very nice work, Mark!

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I'm thinking it needs to stay perpendicular to the floor.

 

I'd better restate that...it's not perpendicular to the floor, it's perpendicular to the bottom of the foot where the toes bend. If that makes sense.

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I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. It defaults back to a perpendicular position according to the Right/Left Foot Controller, which defaults back to the bottom of the foot when switching back to IK.

 

[EDIT] Are you saying it need to be oriented between the heel controller and the toe controller, so it's perpendicular to the bend?

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Ok David, try this one out. Still no compensates. :D

 

Hopefully I'll have an installation rig ready for you Al. It will be awhile though.

 

No problem Mark. I am still in the very early planning stages, and haven't even started character development or modelling.

 

All your hard work is definitely appreciated.

 

Al

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I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. It defaults back to a perpendicular position according to the Right/Left Foot Controller, which defaults back to the bottom of the foot when switching back to IK.

 

[EDIT] Are you saying it need to be oriented between the heel controller and the toe controller, so it's perpendicular to the bend?

 

I'm probably not being very clear. Here's a quick video to illustrate. In the video, I put the right foot on its' toes using the "Right Heel Controller", set the "Right Knee Follow Ball Controller" Pose to 100%, rotated the foot like its' grinding something into the ground, turned off and on the "Right IK Leg" Pose and then selected the "Right Ball Controller" to show its' position.

 

The "Right Ball Controller" will return to the correct position if the "Right Heel Controller" is put back to its' default and the "Right IK Leg" Pose is turned off and on. However, if you don't do that, you can't do the same movement of grinding the foot using that control...at least I wasn't able to do it.

 

I checked the Squetch Rig and it has a similar problem...I never noticed it. I'll do some tinkering on that tonight and see if I can clear it up.

foot_thing_07_17_2008.mov

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Okay, now I see what's going on...it's not broken, I was just thinking about it wrong. When the leg is put into FK, it turns it into a bent toe instead of a raised heel. When the IK foot control is put into the right position for that to happen, it repositions the other controls accordingly. Since that's the way it needs to behave in order for the FK/IK switching to work correctly, it's the way it should be, I'm thinking.

 

Sorry about the false alarm, Mark....as far as I can tell, it's solid. Very nice work!

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Added hands to Thom (swiped them from another model and modified). It uses the old hand setup from the 2001 rig, but at some point I'll upgrade them too. I'm still not sure what to do with them yet.

 

I'm rendering a test animation now and will post it when it's finished.

 

[EDIT] New update below.

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Thanks.

 

The timings not bad, but there is something off right before he lands. I'm not sure if he over rotates before he straightens out or his back arches back too far before he lands.

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Thanks.

 

The timings not bad, but there is something off right before he lands. I'm not sure if he over rotates before he straightens out or his back arches back too far before he lands.

 

I'd say you need to get some head action in there - especially at the end - its too stiff - the head might look better if it's tucked into the chest tighter, and then rolls up, past the ending position, and then settles forward

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The timings not bad, but there is something off right before he lands. I'm not sure if he over rotates before he straightens out or his back arches back too far before he lands.

 

Nice gymnastics. I think he needs to straighten out at the top of the twirl (so he's almost horizontal)......and then his feet fall and the rest follows. You could have hours of fun if you reverse the action after. :D

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Sorry I didn't reply sooner Ken. I got involved with other things. I still need to upgrade the hands too. I'll probably not update the action anymore. After all, this is a rig thread, not an animating thread. ;)

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Took a break from other things I was doing and got the hands upgraded. I'm not that happy with them yet, but it's a start. I may need to resort to expressions to add better control.

 

[EDIT] New update below.

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