number Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I've got a rough WIP for the July 2008 11 Second Club animation contest. I thought that I'd play w/ getting lip synch in Animation Master and submit a Work In Progress. I got two quick responses. I just grabbed what was convenient, Shaggy, and simple enough for me to animate in two days. Any other of the models or rigs that would work better here? I'm just getting started w/ designing and creating the sequence, so the simpler the better. Here is the youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIPw3GFV8z8 thanks, Tim R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 9, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 9, 2008 Shaggy's mouth is about as simple as it gets. Is' say do the body language first, then worry about the lipsynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detbear Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Hey Tim, I would suggest setting up the shot at a broader angle and set up your key poses to the dialogue. Either do the body poses along with the dialogue or just the body poses first. Listening to the audio....it seems like more of a subtle shot without a lot of running and jumping...so you could mayber perhaps get away with a medium shot....But for the 11 second club I would push it. I would also consider changing characters.....but if you only have 2 days...that makes it a close call. For future reference and as a suggestion. Planning a shot out will save you a bunch of time. Study that audio and plan it out. come up with key poses to effectively tell the story in a creative...witty way....Then you're well on your way William D Animator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Received and taken a lot of advice here. Thanks to everybody for the great feedback. I've replaced Shaggy w/ a TWO rig and worked on the key poses. I'm not settled on the camera angle, so this is only for review of the animation. Current WIP on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs458dST7Cs Thanks, Tim R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detbear Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Tim, I think this is a definate improvement from your version with Shaggy. As an animator, I'm gonna give you a suggestion that I see could use improvement: 1. Animation begins in the core of the body.....some say the hips. We've all made the mistake of hitting the cool parts first, like hand/ arm motions and lip sinc. However....in the end, you want life flowing through the character and the first motion comes from the body out into the extremities. SO get the hips moving even if it's very...very slight. You can add arms and lip sinc later, but not core movements like the hips. Your base appoach to poses needs to spring from that major. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 14, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 14, 2008 First, I'm still not convinced the person picking the clips for 11 sec club is doing it right. The character doesn't reveal any "change" which is what to look for in audio clips with potential. But you're stuck with it. Maybe you can extract some change from it. ok... Too many hand/arm poses. It's almost like he's "signing" every word. On a clip like this you try to look for maybe two main ideas that are going thru the character's mind. I see them as -"My son is great" -"You too dumb to see it" maybe that's the change! He starts out awed (by his son) and ends up dismissive (of the other guy). It's not much but it's something. Conveying that in pose will be tough without resorting to melodrama. Use his posture to help convey his emotion. He sounds impatient to me. Leaning forward might help. or walking away. I'm not settled on the camera angle, so this is only for review of the animation. Choose that camera angle early. Your poses depend on the camera angle. Eliminating the view of the 2nd character will simplify things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 Settled on a camera angle (thanks). I've removed my crazy "signing" by removing my extra keyframes. I had too many ideas added to the last animation. I've added the body motions and getting close to being done with the core motion. I see the point about the hips carrying the animation and everything else following. Still, learning a lot. I'm glad I've got 16 days to go! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gWDDqmNZFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 16, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 16, 2008 I will say that you have certainly jumped in the deep end here. This dialog stuff is the most complicated thing to try to do well in animation. Dialog is quite an awkward starting point for learning to animate because the subtle body motions that people do when they are talking are really an advanced topic. There are too many issues to handle at once. And then trying to come up with something new that hasn't been done to death already... well, it's a daunting task. But... you've started this so let's presume you're going do this one the best you can... There's still too much going on without much meaning being conveyed. You want to thin this down to about two or three key poses that the audience can grab onto and that show real change in appearance. Right now almost everything is happening in his hands and chin and the body is contributing very little. His posture is very straight and rigid thru the whole clip. That's working against you. It's almost unnatural to see the hands doing so much with no participation by the torso. Less hand, more definite body pose. I'd rewind and just come up with 3 poses that convey this guy's key emotions. Starting pose --> first emotion --> finishing emotion. If he's standing absolutely straight upright in each one, he's not doing his job. When I was supervising animators for TWO movie i made some videos about how to block out the first pass of an animation. I think these might help you organize your work and distill it down to the essentials. http://www.hash.com/two/RCHolmen/PoseToPoseH.mov http://www.hash.com/two/RCHolmen/BreakdownMP4.mov When you finish this 11 second club entry you'll really want to go and get your animation fundamentals working because that's what is tripping you up here. LEarn to do a great bouncing ball, learn to do a great jump, learn to do a great side step... those are the sort of building blocks of good timing and weight and body mechanics you'll want to have mastered to make complex shots like this do-able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Thanks Rob for the guidance. I'm certainly going to get back to the basics w/ my next animation projects. The video on pose-to-pose was great. I still need to watch the second video. I had spread out all of my animation across too many frames in the previous versions. I ended up removing more of the extraneous movements and focused around some key poses. I probably have too much motion left in this refinement, but I like the general direction. Easy to do too much, hard to do just enough. Good points about creating a unique animation for this contest. I've got my latest WIP on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwshhEYiInw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 24, 2008 Hey I just caught that. Less is definitely more, wouldn't you say? I still think there's too much "small" going on and not enough "big", but I can finally start to see the core ideas that you are trying to present I like the shrug and sigh, I think that's your best idea. Sighs are hard to do with a CG character. One-handed gestures tend to be better than two handed gestures because they are non-symmetrical. When you are doing a one-handed gesture, I'd drop the other arm to the to the side rather than float in space. Good posing is a constant challenge. Here's ONE way I might loosen up the first pose and give it more direction. It's a broad pose, but I like broad poses. It could be toned down or made even bigger. We could go thru every pose and find ways to make them stronger and less stiff. That's most of the battle in character animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Rob, Thanks for the evaluation and the suggestions. I do like the lines in your pose. I still see too much straight up and down (more bounce than sway). I've been reducing the movement in the character and holding the key gestures. Latest work is on youtube (should be processed soon) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0OK80yaZV8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
case Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Number, Your still leaning toward the stiff side BUT your getting closer and closer each time! Keep it up! Case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 30, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 30, 2008 That got better! Still needs stronger poses and, in general, I don't like talking straight into the camera, but thinning that out has helped. Ship it off to the voting and brace yourself, I'm sure you'll get comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Done, done, and done. Final animation shipped off to the contest. Many, many thanks to those who took the time to comment. My overall goals were to submit my work and to learn as much as I could about the animation workflow and mechanics. I've got more motivation to learn and work through the basics, but I still want to keep trying the hard stuff. I learn best with this kind of challenge. Funny enough, it was render 100 that was complete. Final video on youtube: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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