Assigning CPs all other things to J.D.

[Zaryin]

Ok. I have the rig installed in J.D., but now i need to know what to assign to what. WHy are there only fan bones for the wrists, elbows and knees, etc? Why not for the fingers and such. What do assign the bicep and shoulder fans too?

 

What's CP Wieghting and what should I weight? WHat bones do I not assign geometry too? WOuldn't using CP Weighting auto assign all the bones some geometry?

 

Thanks.

[rusty]

Ok. I have the rig installed in J.D., but now i need to know what to assign to what.

 

Hi Jeff!

 

I only have time to take a shot at your first question.

 

As you attempt to follow the general steps below, use the appropriate version of the 'Sam' model as a guide.

 

Start in a general way; start with assigning the CPs to the bone that is closest to them. However, when it comes to any part that has a right and left side (arms, hands... but not chest) only assign the models right side. Doing 'Auto Assign Bones' to start is not a bad way to go -- it does a little too much for my taste though. Doing this will assign both right and left side bones but this is okay... just work with the right side only, ignore the left. Later you'll use the mirror bones plug-in to mirror the right side to the left. Regarding the 2 bones that are the chest and stomic bones (they point forward), ignore these for now. These are done in the CP Weighting phasre.

 

Then you get more specific; the shoulder bone (again right side only) will only affect portions of the chest and shoulder areas -- pretty much you decide on what works best for your model. The fan bones normally only control the middle spline causing it to turn 50% to blend the CPs as the joint bends.

 

At this stage your model should move correctly in a broad sense on the right side -- for the details around the joints and muscles CP weighting and then Smart Skin are needed.

 

I hope that helps a little Jeff.

 

Rusty

[Paul Forwood]

WHy are there only fan bones for the wrists, elbows and knees, etc? Why not for the fingers and such.

My guess is that David is just using weighting on the finger joints. Weighting allows you to achieve much the same effect without the need for intermediate bones. You must try it, Zaryin! It is easy to apply and makes a huge difference to the quality of an animated model.

[rusty]

WHy are there only fan bones for the wrists, elbows and knees, etc? Why not for the fingers and such.

My guess is that David is just using weighting on the finger joints. Weighting allows you to achieve much the same effect without the need for intermediate bones. You must try it, Zaryin! It is easy to apply and makes a huge difference to the quality of an animated model.

 

Guess again Paul! Or ask Dhar. David weights every CP! Every CP! That's my understanding. I sure as heck don't... different strokes I guess.

 

Rusty

[largento]

Jeff, I've been using CP weights on most of my CPs, too. It's really not that difficult and what I do is start off with just assigning things to bones and then I go in and kind of layer in the weights as they're needed.

 

Use the Edit CP Weights dialogue box to inspect the CPs on David's Squetchy Sam model to get an idea of what geometry bones to use in the Squetch rig.

 

I'm trying out a new screen capture app, so I tried making a very simple example of how to weight CPs. I've bumped down the size and lowered the frame rate to make the video small and I'm having trouble making myself go slow and even with my movements, but I think it comes across...

 

weighting_s.mov

[Paul Forwood]

Guess again Paul! Or ask Dhar. David weights every CP! Every CP!

 

Oops! Sorry. What I meant to say is that the finger joints are probably just weighted and don't require intermediate bones anymore. I didn't mean to imply that the rest of the model is not weighted.

 

I am still pretty new to weighting but I love it. It gives so much more control over the way that the skin and muscle move in response to a bone's motion. The interface could be better thought out, in my opinion. At the moment there is too much clicking and you have to open and close the interface for each selection. It would be nice if you could just go into weighting mode and work through all the CPs.

[Dhar]

CP weighting will differ from one model to the next. I am weighting every CP, which is why its taking me so long. But I think it'll be worth it in the end to have a model that will move and deform smoothly and properly - I hope.

[Dhar]

What's CP Wieghting and what should I weight? WHat bones do I not assign geometry too? WOuldn't using CP Weighting auto assign all the bones some geometry?

 

Thanks.

 

CP weighting is assigning a CP to different bones with different percentages. For example; the tip of the toes CPs will be assigned to the toes bone at 100%. The next ring of CPs would be assigned to toe bone 75% while 25% will be assigned to the foot_geom bone, and so on. This will help the CPs to stretch smoothly as the toe bone moves. Steve's video illustrates that point effectively.

 

This part, I think, is the most tedious of the whole modeling process.

[Zaryin]

Wow! Thanks everyone. I really didn't expect this type of responce and am very grateful. Two more questions...Where do I get this Mirror Bones Plug-in? And where can I find Squetchy Sam?

 

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep you updated on how it's going.

[largento]

Wow! Thanks everyone. I really didn't expect this type of responce and am very grateful. Two more questions...Where do I get this Mirror Bones Plug-in? And where can I find Squetchy Sam?

 

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep you updated on how it's going.

 

Here is where you can get the Squetchy Sam model...

 

And here's where you can get the mirror bones plug-in.

[Zaryin]

Thanks alot .

[itsjustme]

Don't forget to reset the compensates using the included text file, Jeff.

 

Once you run the "InstallRig" plugin, all of the geometry bones will be unhidden in model window in Bones mode...even if you have done some hiding or unhiding of bones, you can run the plugin again and all it will do is unhide them again, nothing else would be affected.

 

Squetchy Sam will help give you an idea of what bones to weight everything to, but every character is going to be at least slightly different. The way I rough-in the weighting is to run the "InstallRig" plugin, in Bones mode hide all of the head bones except the "head_geom_front", hide the fan bones ("right/left_elbow_fan_geom", "right/left_wrist_fan_geom", "right/left_shoulder_fan_geom", "right/left_bicep_fan_geom", "chest_IO_geom", "stomach_IO_geom", "right/left_thigh_fan_geom", "right/left_knee_geom") and the "right/left_foot_shadow_geom" bone (it's located in the same place as the "right/left_foot_geom" bone). Then, I right mouse-click over the model window and select "Auto Assign Bones". That gets enough weighted to make it easy to see the affect of resetting the compensates. Not everyone does it this way, it's just what I do.

 

Weighting one side and then using the "MirrorBones" plugin to copy the weighting from one side to the other will save you quite a bit of time...it's a very cool plugin.

 

Another method to rough-in the weighting would be to use the Transfer_AW plugin which is on Steffen Gross' download page where the "MirrorBones" plugin is located...here. The results of my experiments with the Transfer_AW plugin are here. You could use Squetchy Sam as the "lo-res" model to transfer weighting to the "hi-res" model (your character)...it would do a decent job of roughing-in (I would probably make a modified Squetchy Sam that didn't include the face weighting, to keep it simple).

 

Do as much of the manual CP Weighting as you can in an Action. That way, if you accidentally move something you didn't intend to move, it doesn't become a permanent part of the model.

 

Hope that helps, Jeff.

[Zaryin]

If I do CP Weighting within an Action how do I get it to be a permeanent part of the model?

 

Should I reset the compensates right away? I don't really know what they are or what they do. I've notices that with what I got so far I am getting some weird result to my shoulder area.

 

Thanks for the info.

[itsjustme]

If I do CP Weighting within an Action how do I get it to be a permeanent part of the model?

 

If you do the weighting in an Action, the weighting is a permanent part of the model once you save the model...the same as if you did the weighting in any other window (except any other changes won't become part of the model).

 

Should I reset the compensates right away? I don't really know what they are or what they do. I've notices that with what I got so far I am getting some weird result to my shoulder area.

 

I would reset the compensates before doing anything more than roughing-in the weighting...there's a text file of instructions included with the installation rigs.

 

Compensates are part of "translate to" or "orient like" constraints...they allow for the bone to maintain its' position when the constraints are applied. If a bone is set to "translate to" without a compensate, the bone will move to the bone it is set to translate to. If the same constraint is applied with a compensate, the bone will stay where it is and maintain the same distance from the bone it is set to translate to. I show an example of this in the original Squetch Rig installation tutorial at the beginning.

 

There are quite a few compensates that need to be reset in the rig since the compensates are set for how everything is positioned in Squetchy Sam, so things might look strange until everything is reset. To reset a compensate, you set the enforcement of the constraint to "0", hit the compensate button and then re-enter the enforcement that was originally there. There are some compensates that need to be reset at both the 0% and 100% (or off and on) of the Poses they are in. The "upper_lip_to_Maxilla" Pose you will have to do differently...on those constraints, set the rotations on the bones to "0" on 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' axes (it's just a different way of resetting compensates...the usual way doesn't work on the constraints in that Pose).

 

Hope that helps, Jeff.

[Zaryin]

I hope that helps too, haha. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all this. Even though I've been using A:M for a few years now, this is new territory for me. I'm sure I'll get it, it's just -- a little daunting.

 

Another question if that's ok. Should I only rest compensates on one side and use MirrorBones to flip it all, or should I do both sides after I run MirrorBones.

 

Thanks again.

[itsjustme]

I hope that helps too, haha. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all this. Even though I've been using A:M for a few years now, this is new territory for me. I'm sure I'll get it, it's just -- a little daunting.

 

Another question if that's ok. Should I only rest compensates on one side and use MirrorBones to flip it all, or should I do both sides after I run MirrorBones.

 

Thanks again.

 

You'll have to reset compensates on both sides...the MirrorBones plugin won't do that. In the Posable installations, you'll only use the MirrorBones plugin for copying weighting.

 

Hope that helps, Jeff.

[Zaryin]

Ok. I am having alot more trouble that I think I should be having. I am trying to follow where Squetchy Sam is assigned. I got rid of his cp weighting, but I don't think it's showing exactly right. I just can't seem to get things to look good with J.D.. The eye area for me is looking crappy. Also the shoulder area is horrible in an action it's all pushed forward and ugly. This is before cp weighting or resetting the compensates.

 

Is there any way I could see a version of Sam before CP Weighting was added? Just to see if it looks different than the version where I got rid of the cp weighting.

 

Thanks either way for the help.

 

PS: I just quit smoking the other day, so if I seem to rambling lately, put it to that.

[itsjustme]

Ok. I am having alot more trouble that I think I should be having. I am trying to follow where Squetchy Sam is assigned. I got rid of his cp weighting, but I don't think it's showing exactly right. I just can't seem to get things to look good with J.D.. The eye area for me is looking crappy. Also the shoulder area is horrible in an action it's all pushed forward and ugly. This is before cp weighting or resetting the compensates.

 

Is there any way I could see a version of Sam before CP Weighting was added? Just to see if it looks different than the version where I got rid of the cp weighting.

 

Thanks either way for the help.

 

PS: I just quit smoking the other day, so if I seem to rambling lately, put it to that.

 

Before resetting the compensates it's going to be pretty ugly. You're going to want to reset those before doing any serious weighting. The rig should end up looking exactly the same as it does in Bones mode when you open an Action once all of the compensates are reset.

 

Sam's rig isn't any different after weighting...weighting just assigns the CP's to the geometry bones. So, to see him before weighting, you just click on an empty area of the model window in Bones mode and then select all of his CP's.

 

Congrats on quitting smoking, Jeff! It's an extremely hard habit to break.

[Zaryin]

Sam's rig isn't any different after weighting...weighting just assigns the CP's to the geometry bones. So, to see him before weighting, you just click on an empty area of the model window in Bones mode and then select all of his CP's.

 

Congrats on quitting smoking, Jeff! It's an extremely hard habit to break.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean by the above comment. I did this -- I think, and couldn't tell what bones were assigned to what because of all the cp weighting. I then removed all the cp weighting, but it looks like the bones are now assigned sort of randomly -- as in their assignment doesn't make sense to me.

 

Thanks for the help and on the smoking, only that's been just a few days. Hopefully it sticks.

[itsjustme]

Sam's rig isn't any different after weighting...weighting just assigns the CP's to the geometry bones. So, to see him before weighting, you just click on an empty area of the model window in Bones mode and then select all of his CP's.

 

Congrats on quitting smoking, Jeff! It's an extremely hard habit to break.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean by the above comment. I did this -- I think, and couldn't tell what bones were assigned to what because of all the cp weighting. I then removed all the cp weighting, but it looks like the bones are now assigned sort of randomly -- as in their assignment doesn't make sense to me.

 

Thanks for the help and on the smoking, only that's been just a few days. Hopefully it sticks.

 

I'm probably not understanding what you're asking, Jeff...not unusual. If you can take another stab at explaining the problem, I'll take another stab at it from my end.

[mtpeak2]

Ok, Jeff. You want to do this one step at a time.

 

1. Assign cps (if a spline ring falls within the bones length, assign the cps to it).

 

2. Compensate the constraints (using David's text file as a guide).

 

3. Open an action and and start weighting the spline rings (the closer the ring gets to the base or end of the bone, you'll want to add weighting to the bone it is getting closer to, the closer it gets, the more weight you add)

 

4. Once you rough in the weighting, you can then fine tune it by weighting single cps or smaller groups of cps (you can weight cps to as many bones as you want, as long as the total percentage adds up to 100%).

[Zaryin]

I understand what I'm supposed to do. I just don't get what I'm supposed to do. There's all these weird bones. Like in the stomach area. There's two stomach bones. Which one gets assigned to what? And the thigh fan bones along with the thigh_geom bones. And eye socket bones along wtih eylid bones. And the shoulder area with all those bones including sleeve bones (which I assume I'm to ignore unless my character had a shirt.

 

You have to remember this is my usual set up for an arm:

 

Bicep/Elbow fan/Forearm/Wrist fan/Hand That's what I'm used to. There's so many bones I just don't know what to do. So I'm just going to assign and post my progress as I go and hope I am not screwing it up to much .

 

Thanks guys.

[itsjustme]

I understand what I'm supposed to do. I just don't get what I'm supposed to do. There's all these weird bones. Like in the stomach area. There's two stomach bones. Which one gets assigned to what? And the thigh fan bones along with the thigh_geom bones. And eye socket bones along wtih eylid bones. And the shoulder area with all those bones including sleeve bones (which I assume I'm to ignore unless my character had a shirt.

 

You have to remember this is my usual set up for an arm:

 

Bicep/Elbow fan/Forearm/Wrist fan/Hand That's what I'm used to. There's so many bones I just don't know what to do. So I'm just going to assign and post my progress as I go and hope I am not screwing it up to much .

 

Thanks guys.

 

There are stomach_IO and chest_IO bones that are for the in/out movement on those areas...weight those last if you're going to use them (the other stomach and chest "geom" bones are the main ones and should be weighted before transferring any weighting to the IO bones).

 

The eye socket geom bones are so that the weighting can allow for the eye sockets to move and rotate...there are videos here and here to illustrate what the eyes should be able to do when the weighting is finished.

 

The thigh fan bones is to smooth the weighting between the lower torso and the thighs.

 

The sleeve bones can be ignored if your character doesn't have short sleeves.

 

Hope that helps, Jeff.

[Zaryin]

Thanks for the info .

[Zaryin]

Ok. Here's my J.D. Model so far. I have the cps assigned to the right side of the body. That's as far as I am right now. I'm posting the model in the hopes that someone who knows about these things can take a look at it (in an action also) and let me know how well it's -- and I am -- doing so far.

 

Thanks for looking.

JD_prerigged02.zip

[mtpeak2]

I took a quick look Jeff. For the mostpart, it's pretty good, but there are a few problem areas. The shoulder/bicep joint could be alot better and the crotch area. The face is hard to tell without both sides done, but from what I can see, it needs work too. I'll try to give you more on this when I have time.

[Zaryin]

Thanks. Any help is appreciated. I just don't know what bones should bw attached to what in some places.

[mtpeak2]

First thing I see as I look at the bone placement, is the shoulder joint, it's too closer to the center of the model. If you look at the placement in STEP 3, you'll see what I mean. You'll never get good arm rotation in the position it's in now.

[Zaryin]

Is there a way to fix this without having to go all the way back to step 3?

[Zaryin]

Well, since noone answered I guess that means there isn't a way to fix it. So I guess I'll have to start from the beginning, but I'll just end up stuck again. Whatever...

[mtpeak2]

Sorry Jeff, been pretty busy with TWO today (yesterday). It could be done, but it would be easier to go back to your installation action, it gets pretty complicated adjusting bones manually in the rig.

[Zaryin]

Yeah, I figured. It's just that I don't know if it's worth me going all the way back to the beginning when I'm just going to get stuck where I am right now -- not knowing what cps to assign to what bones. This sucks, but I guess If I want to learn how do this crap I have to restart. I would have to do this when I quit smoking. Nothing seems to be going right for the last couple days. *sigh*

[mtpeak2]

All you need to do use the action that you have already, that's if you saved it before exporting. Then just readjust the arms. You don't have to start from scratch.

[Zaryin]

I'll definatly have to restart since i didn't do anything in an action... Ah. YOu mean from the installation. I should still have all that -- I''ll take a look and see.

 

Thanks.

[Zaryin]

Does this look better?

[itsjustme]

I'm sorry, I've been pretty busy as well, Jeff. I saw the post, but I didn't get around to responding.

 

The change in the shoulder looks a lot better.

[mtpeak2]

That looks better. Maybe up and in just a hair.

[Zaryin]

Up and in just hair? Ok. I'll probably wait until tomorrow when the new update is out and screw around from there. Or I'll wait for the posable version.

 

Thanks again .