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Good catch Ken. I noticed that too but I thought it was I who didn't use the null properly or that's just the way Sam acts. It would be better to have predictable results out of the rig regardless of the model it controls.

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This is all in the poses that need to be setup by the person doing the face pose. I believe these poses are in the installation rig as a default, or maybe not, but they would be edited to suit each model that's rigged. This is just how David has Squetchy Sam setup. It's up to the user to setup/edit the poses to their liking.

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Guys I just noticed this......

 

In the TWO characters, to make a character smile you would move the mouth corner null up. But in this rig, he also smiles when you move the sync null to the right. Previously that used to make the mouth wider. In other words, you can't make his mouth wider without him smiling. I think it's as intended, but it's different to last time and the method used in the "Stop staring" book. I can think of instances where a characters mouth would widen but not smile.

 

You can make his mouth wider without smiling, but you're right, I should change that FACE setup so that it would be easier to do without digging through Poses. I'm going to have to correct another couple of Poses anyway, I'll do that as well and have it in the next release of Sam.

 

Also, in the second image, with the null in this position, both lips would be equally curled into the mouth. Ideally between the teeth (the bottom lip definitely needs to be between the teeth for FV sounds).

 

Sure, I could change that...or you could use the Preston Blair "FV" Pose to get it quickly.

 

Good catch Ken. I noticed that too but I thought it was I who didn't use the null properly or that's just the way Sam acts. It would be better to have predictable results out of the rig regardless of the model it controls.

 

There are going to be subtle differences depending on who sets up a character, everyone has their preferences. For the most part, Sam is predictable if you compare him to the Tinman and TinGirl from TWO...those are the only characters in the film that have the bones rig (and the only characters I rigged the faces on), the rest have muscle-based Poses being driven by the FACE controls.

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Its alive...

 

Hi this is Rusty. Can someone point me at the latest reset compensates document (or did this go away?)? I've read most of this thread but somehow missed the info on this.

 

Thanks,

Rusty

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It's the text file in the download "posable installation steps".

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This update includes the "Foot Gizmo" add-ons, some small fixes and a setup Action for using Zign Track/AM Track Actions.

 

The mouth corners' "Y" Smartskins were moved to other nulls to fix a slight "sticking" of the muscle movement that showed up in Squetchy Sam. Sam's FACE controls now don't automatically smile when widening the mouth, there is an added "BVH" Pose that adjusts the left/right movement of the chin when using Zign Track/AM Track Actions. Two mouth installation Poses were deleted because they are no longer necessary. The "Posable_installation_steps" text file was updated and the "Using_Zign_Track_Actions.txt" was added.

 

Thanks to Mark Skodacek, Luuk Steitner and Ken Heslip for their help in getting these updates finished.

 

 

If anyone finds a problem, let us know and we'll fix it as fast as we can. More will be added as it gets finished.

 

 

-----------------------

EDIT

-----------------------

 

Added Posable simple toe add-ons to this post.

 

 

-----------------------

EDIT

-----------------------

 

These files have been deleted, the next update is located here.

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These are the final versions of the v11.1 and v12 biped Squetch Rigs and the final v11.1 and v12 standalone FACE installations. They do not include all of the present rig updates, but they have fixes for things that were broken in them and a few added tweaks. The FACE controls are upgraded to handle the present version of Zign Track's BVH export (the Action export only exports v13 Actions), the BVH files and instructions are also valid for the present version of the rig if you would rather use BVH instead of an Action.

 

I don't have any plans to add anything to these rigs, but I will fix them if a problem is found that is correctable. I'll be doing the same thing with the v11.1 and v12 Quad rigs after the Posable Quad installations are finished.

v11_1_Squetch_Rig_12_05_2007B_installations.zip

v11_1_Squetch_Rig_12_05_2007B_Foot_Gizmo_installations.zip

v11_1_Squetchy_Sam_12_05_2007B.zip

v12_Squetch_Rig_12_05_2007B_installations.zip

v12_Squetch_Rig_12_05_2007B_Foot_Gizmo_installations.zip

v12_Squetchy_Sam_12_05_2007B.zip

standalone_v11_1_FACE_12_05_2007B_installations.zip

standalone_v12_FACE_12_05_2007B_installations.zip

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Should we replace the rig on the SO svn with the latest one above?

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Should we replace the rig on the SO svn with the latest one above?

 

If you want the latest version in there, sure, Ken. There is still a Quad rig update, a couple more add-ons and a new installation tutorial in the works.

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I don't know. Installation has started so it'll mean different characters will have different versions. I guess we should stick to one.

 

Edit: Another suggestion. The camera in the blank installation rigs seem to be moved up and don't "see" all the nulls......by default (I know it can be adjusted by the installer). Thanks.

camera.jpg

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I don't know. Installation has started so it'll mean different characters will have different versions. I guess we should stick to one.

 

Edit: Another suggestion. The camera in the blank installation rigs seem to be moved up and don't "see" all the nulls......by default (I know it can be adjusted by the installer). Thanks.

 

The changes are relatively minor, so I don't think it will be a big deal. For TWO, several big updates were installed in already rigged characters, but I don't think you'll run into anything that major. There shouldn't be any more updates for quite a while, unless someone finds a problem...I'll be giving the installations a better test when I make the installation tutorial.

 

I don't position the FACE controllers until after the Posable installation, so seeing the nulls or looking through the FACE camera wouldn't be necessary. I'm not sure when you are doing it, Ken.

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OK, I'll update them then.

 

I'm not sure when you are doing it, Ken.

 

I'm doing it in the order of the text instructions. I've moved all the geometry and Face camera down to the perfect position round the face. None of the interface will need changing but I'll probably have to move the camera down to get them inside it's view. At least I think I will as I haven't got that far yet.

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I'm not sure when you are doing it, Ken.

 

I'm doing it in the order of the text instructions. I've moved all the geometry and Face camera down to the perfect position round the face. None of the interface will need changing but I'll probably have to move the camera down to get them inside it's view. At least I think I will as I haven't got that far yet.

 

Once you reset the compensates on the "FACE Interface - Master" bone, it should line up. After that, use the "Customize_interface" Poses to fine tune the positioning.

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Hey David.....In the text instructions there's something like this:

 

In "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/cheek_setup/cheeks_move_with_jaw"...these constraints will need to have the translation of the nulls set to zero for 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' at 100% then use the Timeline to copy the amount of compensate from the 100% to the 0% of the Pose for 'X', 'Y' and 'Z'.

 

Would it be possible to copy the 100% keyframe in the timeline and paste it at 0%? It would be much faster than getting the absolute value in the cp settings. Thanks.

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Hey David.....In the text instructions there's something like this:

 

In "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/cheek_setup/cheeks_move_with_jaw"...these constraints will need to have the translation of the nulls set to zero for 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' at 100% then use the Timeline to copy the amount of compensate from the 100% to the 0% of the Pose for 'X', 'Y' and 'Z'.

 

Would it be possible to copy the 100% keyframe in the timeline and paste it at 0%? It would be much faster than getting the absolute value in the cp settings. Thanks.

 

Sure, you could do that. Just make sure that the enforcement of the constraint is "0%" at "0" of the Pose...you just want the compensates to be the same, Ken.

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Sure, you could do that. Just make sure that the enforcement of the constraint is "0%" at "0" of the Pose...you just want the compensates to be the same, Ken.

 

OK. So, If I just select the x,y,z,w components in the pws. That would mean I'd leave out the enforcement. Am I right in thinking, then I can copy all the keyframes at 100% in one go and paste at 0% right?

 

BTW, as an aside, I have noticed that there appears to be two cp keyframes at the 0% point (in timeline) in most of the w components.

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Sure, you could do that. Just make sure that the enforcement of the constraint is "0%" at "0" of the Pose...you just want the compensates to be the same, Ken.

 

OK. So, If I just select the x,y,z,w components in the pws. That would mean I'd leave out the enforcement. Am I right in thinking, then I can copy all the keyframes at 100% in one go and paste at 0% right?

 

It sounds right, Ken...I have never done it that way, but it seems like it should work.

 

BTW, as an aside, I have noticed that there appears to be two cp keyframes at the 0% point (in timeline) in most of the w components.

 

I'll take a look at it tonight...it shouldn't affect anything, but I'll clean it up if it's there. Thanks!

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BTW, as an aside, I have noticed that there appears to be two cp keyframes at the 0% point (in timeline) in most of the w components.

 

 

Okay, I went through and looked for the double keyframes on the "w" of Poses...the only Poses that I found that had the double keyframes were the Poses that have a starting point of ".01". Those Poses aren't supposed to go to "0", so they might have a double in them as a result (one on "0" and one at the ".01" position on the Pose slider). Those doubles won't affect the Poses.

 

Which Poses in particular are you seeing the double keyframes in, Ken?

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Pretty much all of these.....and some others I can't remember. It's always the w component. So, would deleting the "extra" keyframe make a difference? :unsure: I did on some. Which one are we supposed to paste the absolute number into? Both?

 

In "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/upper_lip_to_Maxilla" folder...these constraints will

need to have the rotation of the bone set to zero for 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' at 100% then use the Timeline to copy

the amount of compensate from the 100% to the 0% of the Pose for 'X', 'Y', 'Z' and 'W'.

 

 

a. mouth_upper_right_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_right_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

b. mouth_upper_right_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_right_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

c. mouth_upper_center_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_center_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

d. mouth_upper_left_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_left_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

e. mouth_upper_left_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_left_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

f. mouth_corner_left_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_corner_left_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

g. mouth_lower_left_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_left_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

h. mouth_lower_left_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_left_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

i. mouth_lower_center_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_center_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

j. mouth_lower_right_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_right_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

k. mouth_lower_right_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_right_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

l. mouth_corner_right_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_corner_right_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

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Pretty much all of these.....and some others I can't remember. It's always the w component. So, would deleting the "extra" keyframe make a difference? :unsure: I did on some. Which one are we supposed to paste the absolute number into? Both?

 

In "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/upper_lip_to_Maxilla" folder...these constraints will

need to have the rotation of the bone set to zero for 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' at 100% then use the Timeline to copy

the amount of compensate from the 100% to the 0% of the Pose for 'X', 'Y', 'Z' and 'W'.

 

 

a. mouth_upper_right_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_right_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

b. mouth_upper_right_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_right_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

c. mouth_upper_center_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_center_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

d. mouth_upper_left_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_left_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

e. mouth_upper_left_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_upper_left_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

f. mouth_corner_left_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_corner_left_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

g. mouth_lower_left_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_left_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

h. mouth_lower_left_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_left_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

i. mouth_lower_center_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_center_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

j. mouth_lower_right_1_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_right_1_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

k. mouth_lower_right_2_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_lower_right_2_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

l. mouth_corner_right_orient_like_Maxilla_geom Pose, mouth_corner_right_orient ("orient like Maxilla_geom")

 

 

Hmmm, I checked those Poses...I just double-checked those Poses and I didn't see any double keys in the installation models on those Poses.

 

Try a quick test, open one of the Posable installations, delete the installation Poses, import the appropriate "FINAL_IMPORT" model, run the InstallRig plugin and then check to see if those double keys are there. Or, just open one of the "FINAL_IMPORT" models and look at those Poses in there. If they are the original installation models, there shouldn't be any double keys in those Poses.

 

Double keys could accidentally happen if the compensates are reset at something other than "0" or "100" on the percentage Poses. Let me know if what you have is different, Ken. On those Poses, deleting the extra keyframe would be the way to go if there is one. The only Poses where an extra keyframe might be there that should be left alone would be in one of the percentage Poses that never go completely to "0".

 

The numbers from the 100% keys should be copied to the 0% keys for the 'X', 'Y', 'Z' and 'W'.

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Hmmm.....I'll be doing this for a new character very soon. I'll save a copy of the model for you if I it happens again. Cheers.

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Sometimes trying to select the cp channel at 0%, you actually create one by clicking the spline by accident instead. This has happened to me a few times.

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I'll keep an eye out for that Mark.

 

David/Mark, I'm finding that alot of the time spent in resetting the compensates is trying to pick out the right bones in the PWS. I wonder if they could be made to stand out in some way? Perhaps making the text in capitals? Or have all the poses at the top of the tree?

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OK David. I think this bit is causing the problem:

 

In "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/Maxilla_to_LowerTeeth" set the

"orient like LowerTeeth_geom" constraint to 0% enforcement while the pose is at 100%

and then set it back to 100% with the compensate button pressed. Do the same when

pose is at 0%...finishing with the enforcement set to 0% at 0% of the pose.

 

It says to set the enforcement to 0%, but the slider only goes to 0.1%. What should be done here? It's probably this part that's making the extra cp.

 

 

 

Also, on a separate curious question. Why is there a head_geom_back and a front_geom_backbone? What can they do that one bone for the head can't?

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OK David. I think this bit is causing the problem:

 

In "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/Maxilla_to_LowerTeeth" set the

"orient like LowerTeeth_geom" constraint to 0% enforcement while the pose is at 100%

and then set it back to 100% with the compensate button pressed. Do the same when

pose is at 0%...finishing with the enforcement set to 0% at 0% of the pose.

 

It says to set the enforcement to 0%, but the slider only goes to 0.1%. What should be done here? It's probably this part that's making the extra cp.

 

The "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/Maxilla_to_LowerTeeth" is one of the Poses that doesn't go to "0" (so it will have a double key, but that shouldn't affect anything).

 

 

Also, on a separate curious question. Why is there a head_geom_back and a front_geom_backbone? What can they do that one bone for the head can't?

 

I think you mean "head_geom_front" and "head_geom_back", right, Ken? Those make it where you can squetch the front of the head separate from the back of the head.

 

David/Mark, I'm finding that alot of the time spent in resetting the compensates is trying to pick out the right bones in the PWS. I wonder if they could be made to stand out in some way? Perhaps making the text in capitals? Or have all the poses at the top of the tree?

 

You should only have to pick the the constraints in the Poses to reset them (that will also select the correct bone)...you don't have to pick the bones.

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The "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/Maxilla_to_LowerTeeth" is one of the Poses that doesn't go to "0" (so it will have a double key, but that shouldn't affect anything).

 

So shouldn't it say 0.1% instead of 0% there? It could be confusing to people who don't know.

Just so I'm clear.....when I'm doing the w component later, all three cps in the timeline (0%, 0.1% and 100%) should be in a straight line when I'm finished right?

 

I think you mean "head_geom_front" and "head_geom_back", right, Ken?

 

Correct. :rolleyes:

 

You should only have to pick the the constraints in the Poses to reset them...you don't have to pick the bones.

 

Well, that's what I meant. :) I'm hunting through a sea of constraints in the PWS for the correct ones. Very slow.

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The "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/Maxilla_to_LowerTeeth" is one of the Poses that doesn't go to "0" (so it will have a double key, but that shouldn't affect anything).

 

So shouldn't it say 0.1% instead of 0% there? It could be confusing to people who don't know.

Just so I'm clear.....when I'm doing the w component later, all three cps in the timeline (0%, 0.1% and 100%) should be in a straight line when I'm finished right?

 

I should probably make that more clear, you're absolutely right, Ken. I'll update the instructions on the next release.

 

Yes, it should be a straight line on 0%, .1% and 100%. The 0% setting shouldn't matter unless the setting on the interpolation is something other than "linear" though.

 

 

You should only have to pick the the constraints in the Poses to reset them...you don't have to pick the bones.

 

Well, that's what I meant. :) I'm hunting through a sea of constraints in the PWS for the correct ones. Very slow.

 

The problem with re-naming the bones to make resetting the compensates easier is that it will also affect their locations in the bones list in the Timeline while animating. After a few times through the process, it becomes a lot easier. There is a possibility that the compensate resetting can be automated...it's being worked on, but that doesn't mean it will happen soon or at all.

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The problem with re-naming the bones to make resetting the compensates easier is that it will also affect their locations in the bones list in the Timeline while animating.

 

If they need renaming then don't worry about it. I thought some in the list weren't in alphabetical order. So, I thought you could drag constraints to anywhere in the tree. I'll have to check. But an automated plugin is the best route. That'd be great.

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The problem with re-naming the bones to make resetting the compensates easier is that it will also affect their locations in the bones list in the Timeline while animating.

 

If they need renaming then don't worry about it. I thought some in the list weren't in alphabetical order. So, I thought you could drag constraints to anywhere in the tree. I'll have to check. But an automated plugin is the best route. That'd be great.

 

Changing the order of the constraints could mess up how things work together...so that most likely wouldn't be the way to go, Ken.

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Hello all,

 

I'm trying to get back into things. Will a new version of the Squetch Rig be released soon? If so, what will be in the new version?

 

Thanks for your help as well as all the hard work you guys have put in!

 

Rusty

 

Edit: Wow!!!! Posable Face, and so much else... David, Mark, et al... You guys are like a dream come true! Still have those manual 'reset compensates' I see but the rest more then makes up for this LOL. Hey should I take another 5 months off and maybe the 'compensates' will be gone? (smiles) Seriously, all the new stuff looks GREAT!

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I'm trying to get back into things. Will a new version of the Squetch Rig be released soon? If so, what will be in the new version?

 

There will be at least one more update soon, but, the fixes in it will be extremely minor. There is a slight bone adjustment that most people won't notice and a change in the wording of some of the installation instructions as has been mentioned in the previous couple of posts in this thread. The version that is the present release should be stable for quite a while, I'm thinking. I'm going to be putting together an updated installation video tutorial (where I'll further check for any problems that need fixing) and I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be outdated any time soon. If something is found that needs fixing, then there will be an update to address the problem, but it shouldn't change how things are installed or how they work.

 

Hey should I take another 5 months off and maybe the 'compensates' will be gone? (smiles)

 

I don't know for sure, it's a possibility...it's being worked on, but I know very little about how far along it is, Rusty.

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I don't know for sure, it's a possibility...it's being worked on, but I know very little about how far along it is, Rusty.

 

Gee... can't you ask? Or... is it one of 'those' situations (without listing all of the things it 'could' be... here)?

 

In taking stock I see I have a few days before I actually start (want to review the new stuff, documentation, posts, 'compensates' list) so maybe the update will be out by then.

 

Thanks for all you do!

Rusty

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I don't know for sure, it's a possibility...it's being worked on, but I know very little about how far along it is, Rusty.

 

Gee... can't you ask? Or... is it one of 'those' situations (without listing all of the things it 'could' be... here)?

 

It is dependent on the generosity and available time of a programmer. There have been no timeframes or promises of completion. I prefer to not pester someone that is donating time from their already busy schedule. If it happens, fantastic, if it doesn't, I'll use the available tools.

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David, I'm getting that problem with the extra cp at 0% in the w component of constaints again. But I don't think it's much of a problem. Maybe you'll look at the project attached......

 

Open the project and click on the open relationship window

Look at the 0% point of the w component.....no extra cp.

Now set the pose to 100% and look at the w component again......there should be an extra cp.

 

It seems like the extra cp is a representation of the pose % being changed inside the relationship window.

 

 

Edit: BTW copying and pasting the components from 100% to 0% in the timeline works. No need to go into the cp settings dialog.

Extra_CP.zip

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David, I'm getting that problem with the extra cp at 0% in the w component of constaints again. But I don't think it's much of a problem. Maybe you'll look at the project attached......

 

Open the project and click on the open relationship window

Look at the 0% point of the w component.....no extra cp.

Now set the pose to 100% and look at the w component again......there should be an extra cp.

 

It seems like the extra cp is a representation of the pose % being changed inside the relationship window.

 

 

Edit: BTW copying and pasting the components from 100% to 0% in the timeline works. No need to go into the cp settings dialog.

 

I tried the experiment, and didn't have an extra CP. I tried it in v14c and v13t. The only way I could get something that looked like what you are seeing is if I moved the wrong Pose slider...that made the enforcement for that other slider show up, and it's the same color as the "w". Could you have moved the wrong slider somewhere in your process? I'll double-check myself, but I didn't have the same problem the first time through.

 

I'll have to try copying and pasting the keyframes, that would speed things up. Thanks, Ken.

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Could you have moved the wrong slider somewhere in your process?

 

If I did, then I've done the whole installation wrong! :D I moved the one that's red on the top left side of the timeline window.

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David.....just looking at the face poses. Is it possible to make the lower lips move forward with the jaw when it moves forward? I'm thinking of sounds like RRRRR where the jaw goes forward.

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David.....just looking at the face poses. Is it possible to make the lower lips move forward with the jaw when it moves forward? I'm thinking of sounds like RRRRR where the jaw goes forward.

 

You can either use the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/lips_IO_lower" Pose or the individual IO Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/lips_IO_LR_individual" folder while animating or you can add the in/out as part of the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Lower Face Poses/Jaw - Tongue controls/JawForward" Pose (which, despite the name, controls both in and out in the FACE controls).

 

Hope that helps, Ken.

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I think that should do it. :D Thanks!

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A quick update that includes a scaling fix on a couple of bones and two additions/corrections to the installation instructions. The biggest correction is that the instructions needed to have the positioning of the FACE controls done before the InstallRig plugin is run (otherwise the eye targeting gets messed up). I just re-packaged everything for neatness and added the BVH instructions for Zign Track exports and files because they can also be used with the latest version if you would rather use that instead of an exported Action.

 

Thanks to Mark Skodacek and Ken Heslip for the corrections.

 

If anyone finds any other problems, let us know and we'll fix them as fast as we can.

 

 

--------------------------

EDIT

--------------------------

 

These files were deleted, the next update is here.

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A quick update that includes a scaling fix on a couple of bones and two additions/corrections to the installation instructions. The biggest correction is that the instructions needed to have the positioning of the FACE controls done before the InstallRig plugin is run (otherwise the eye targeting gets messed up). I just re-packaged everything for neatness and added the BVH instructions for Zign Track exports and files because they can also be used with the latest version if you would rather use that instead of an exported Action.

 

Thanks to Mark Skodacek and Ken Heslip for the corrections.

 

If anyone finds any other problems, let us know and we'll fix them as fast as we can.

 

Edit:

If anyone read this email... forget all I said LOL... I was totally wrong... in fact just the opposite of what I said was true. Sometimes I shouldn't try to multi-task LOL.

 

Rusty

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David: In the Face interface, is there any difference in closing the eyes using the blink null and doing it with the lids null? Why are there two ways?

 

Also, is there a video for installing the latest face rig with bones somewhere?

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David: In the Face interface, is there any difference in closing the eyes using the blink null and doing it with the lids null? Why are there two ways?

 

If you use the eyelids control, the lids can overlap, if you use the "Blink" control the eyelids will meet at the predetermined location for a blink (which can also be animated). The "Blink" Pose uses a different set of bones that over-ride whatever position the eyelids are in to accomplish the blink. There are example videos of what the eye controls can do here and here.

 

Also, is there a video for installing the latest face rig with bones somewhere?

 

Not at this time, I'm going to be doing an installation tutorial that includes that though...that's what I'm working toward at the moment (I'm modeling a character for my personal project that I'm going to rig in the tutorial...I'm trying to get several things done at once). The installation is similar to the old installation tutorials, but, two nose bones were eliminated, the origin of the cheek bones has moved to the bridge of the nose and the eyelids have more bones (Squetchy Sam is a good example if you need something to refer to). The Poseable installation makes it a lot easier to position things...if you have any questions before I get the tutorial done, post, PM or e-mail and I'll answer them the best that I can.

 

 

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EDIT

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I forgot to mention that Mark Skodacek's installation tutorial is the most current. The changes I mention in this post aren't in that tutorial though...hopefully, I'll get to the updated tutorial soon. Sorry for the delay.

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I didn't know the origin of the cheek and ear moved to the bridge of the nose? What is the reason for this? Does it make a difference?

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I didn't know the origin of the cheek and ear moved to the bridge of the nose? What is the reason for this? Does it make a difference?

 

When I did the overhaul to the face rig, a lot of things were changed to Expressions. The rotation of the cheek and ear bones is done using Expressions now (the 'Y' axis), that made the 'Z' rotation of those bones important and made the origin location better at the bridge of the nose (in my opinion...although there could always be a better location that I'm not aware of). I tried quite a few other locations, but that is what I thought gave the best movement.

 

I mentioned the change in location when that update of the rig was released, but it is buried somewhere in this thread now. Hopefully, I'll get the updated tutorial started soon...I just have to finish modeling the character I'm going to use (I'll be starting a WIP thread for the project I'll be using him in when I get to that point).

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That's fine David.

 

I'm just comparing moving the sync null around for the latest Sam to TW. It seems to be abit more responsive for TW. The lag is there even in low realtime rez. I wonder what's changed in the mouth controls to cause that? The rest of the null controls seem ok.

It's definitely rig related as Sam has less than half the number of patches of TW.

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Ok, I found where you said the origin changed, it was back in november. I guess I have more fixing to do. No big deal.

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That's fine David.

 

I'm just comparing moving the sync null around for the latest Sam to TW. It seems to be abit more responsive for TW. The lag is there even in low realtime rez. I wonder what's changed in the mouth controls to cause that? The rest of the null controls seem ok.

It's definitely rig related as Sam has less than half the number of patches of TW.

 

The TinWoodman's mouth had a lot fewer constraints and Expressions than the present rig. The changes were put in to make installation easier...it does add some overhead though. The added Poses are in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup" folder for the most part. The "Face_Setup_04_04_2008_instructions.pdf" that is included in the installation Zip shows the process of setting them up using the "face_setup_04_04_2008.act" (also in the Zip).

 

I had a similar slowdown in response in the "RMouthCorner" and "LMouthCorner" controls that I fixed by splitting up the Smartskins. I tried that with the SyncNull, but it didn't appear to speed anything up. I'll try a few more things over the next couple of days to see if there's something that might do the trick, but I'm thinking the big increase in constraints is probably the culprit. Thanks, Ken.

 

Ok, I found where you said the origin changed, it was back in november. I guess I have more fixing to do. No big deal.

 

I'm sorry for the inconvenience, Mark. I should have made sure that information was more visible.

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I posted an update that fixes some typos to the face setup instructions in this post...my brain wasn't working too good, I thought I was in this thread. It's a quick fix for the moment, I'll be posting a rig update late tonight that will include the updated PDF.

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