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The neck geom seems to have the scale and rotate on.

neck.jpg

 

How did you get it to do that, DJ? The "neck_geom" aims at and scales to the head...the controls as well, it's an IK setup. You also don't manipulate the "geom" bones directly (if that's what you're doing)...there are nulls for that.

 

I haven't checked the neck squetching lately, I'll take a look late tonight.

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Ok, the image you show is the result of trying to translate the neck geometry bone, not scaling or rotating. You can not scale or rotate the neck geom bone (except the Z rotation).

 

Fixing things like this are only making the rig larger than it needs to be.

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In that case leave the bones as they are. They are in the show_geom_bones and it is normaly off. You may instead consider put in the Animation_Controls a selection to make visible the chest_IO_geom and stomach_IO_geom. They are the only two bone I can see that the end user has a need to get to.

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You may instead consider put in the Animation_Controls a selection to make visible the chest_IO_geom and stomach_IO_geom. They are the only two bone I can see that the end user has a need to get to.

 

The only time that I think an animator would need to have those bones selected is when they are doing the CP Weighting...unless I'm not understanding what you're saying, DJ.

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They seem to be the only bones that allow you to shift the chest and stomach up & down and side & to side.

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They seem to be the only bones that allow you to shift the chest and stomach up & down and side & to side.

 

Do you mean for jiggling, DJ? For that, I would just put a dynamic constraint on those bones.

 

If you mean spine movement and squetching, there are a lot of controls for that in the spine.

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Okay, here's the last test version of Squetchy Sam before the next rig release. This one has a few more bone names changed to help keep bones that don't need to be manipulated by the animator out of the way...they have "z_" at the beginning of their names like the others that were renamed. The other changes are pretty insignificant.

 

The first test version of the biped installation rigs are put together, Mark and I are going to do some testing to see if there are any problems that we missed and then we'll release the next update. I'll also have an updated Action for Zign Track/AM Track that will be set up for the Pose export and a couple of things fixed that Luuk pointed out as well.

 

If anyone finds something broken, let us know so that it will be fixed in the next release.

 

 

In case anyone needs to refer to the videos or the detailed explanation, they are still located here.

 

 

 

-----------------------------

EDIT

-----------------------------

 

This test version of Squetchy Sam has been removed, the next rig update is located here.

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Seems to be working ok.

I need some input. From animating on TWO I think we would speed things up if we made a "default ON/Off pose" so that (if ON) the character will look normal (non T pose) when brought into an action/chor. These are things we have to do anyway, so I think it makes sense. If we do end up doing that, would it be an idea to have the pose done in the blank rig so that we won't have to set it up in each character after the rig is installed.....and the rotations (of the arms) would be standard across all characters.

 

Here's some things I personally would like to have set up and ready to go in every action/chor:

 

initial pose....arms down/knees bent/fingers curled/feet apart

master eye target on

ik chest on

turn on thumb and finger controller bones

eye lids down so not staring

turn off switches

 

Opinions/suggestions welcome.

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I found a cosmetic item.

On the lower legs, The bow system twists too much at the ankle..

ank.jpg

 

 

A question

The thigh_flexing_percentage and calf_flexing_percentage it the controls

I thought they where for bulge the muscle in the thigh and calf. But they seem to be doing something else and only work when you move the leg and foot?

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Ok, it sounds like another vote to remove the switches. If we remove the switches, you can setup the model anyway you want. As for the initial pose, the pose would probably need to be edited for each model.

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Ok, it sounds like another vote to remove the switches. If we remove the switches, you can setup the model anyway you want. As for the initial pose, the pose would probably need to be edited for each model.

 

No. I don't want the switches removed. I want the rig to be as free from "clutter" as possible when first starting to animate. It's a state of mind thing and all those "bells and whistles" could become daunting. Once the blocking is done (or before), then the switches can be turned on easily if the animator wants. They'll be invaluable for cleanup in particular where you have to hunt through several levels of poses to find the pose you're looking for without them.....for every character in every shot.

 

The initial pose would need to be checked for each model, but the basics would be there....like master target turned on or arms rotated 90 degrees.

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Not all characters will have their arms rotated 90 degrees.

 

If the switches were not used from the beginning of the animation, you can not use them after. Once the poses in the pose slider window have been changed, the switches will not work anymore (except if the poses were set back to the default settings first). You either use them or you don't.

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Not all characters will have their arms rotated 90 degrees.

 

That's why I asked how would be the most economical way to go about it.

 

If the switches were not used from the beginning of the animation, you can not use them after. Once the poses in the pose slider window have been changed, the switches will not work anymore (except if the poses were set back to the default settings first). You either use them or you don't.

 

Well, of course, if anyone needs the functionality of the switches (eg IK arm), it would be a "rule" that they turn on the switches and switch it there......not go into the pose window for those things. Even if the switches are ON by default, there's still no guarantee everyone would use them over the pose window......unless there was a rule.

Turning them off by default is a preference thing that I think Nancy also agrees with. Some more opinions would be nice. Maybe all the bells and whistles doesn't bother most people?

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To me, it's something I see having problems with, due to people using it or not using it when they are suppose to, not to mention the extra keyframes.

 

Don't get me wrong Ken, I'm all for the switches, I'm the one that came up with the idea.

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I found a cosmetic item.

On the lower legs, The bow system twists too much at the ankle..

ank.jpg

 

That is probably from one of the bone name changes...I'll track it down tonight. Thanks, DJ.

 

A question

The thigh_flexing_percentage and calf_flexing_percentage it the controls

I thought they where for bulge the muscle in the thigh and calf. But they seem to be doing something else and only work when you move the leg and foot?

 

The leg flexing sliders adjust the percentage of flex which happens when you bend the leg or point the toe, they don't actually flex the thigh and calf.

 

Not all characters will have their arms rotated 90 degrees.

 

That's why I asked how would be the most economical way to go about it.

 

I can put a blank Pose that can be edited for each character...there really can't be a "one size fits all" for that.

 

If the switches were not used from the beginning of the animation, you can not use them after. Once the poses in the pose slider window have been changed, the switches will not work anymore (except if the poses were set back to the default settings first). You either use them or you don't.

 

Well, of course, if anyone needs the functionality of the switches (eg IK arm), it would be a "rule" that they turn on the switches and switch it there......not go into the pose window for those things. Even if the switches are ON by default, there's still no guarantee everyone would use them over the pose window......unless there was a rule.

Turning them off by default is a preference thing that I think Nancy also agrees with. Some more opinions would be nice. Maybe all the bells and whistles doesn't bother most people?

 

I think that a new user wouldn't know that the switches were there initially, that's why I would rather leave them on by default. The individual animator is going to have their own preferences, but it can be easily turned off if they aren't going to be used. Personally, I love the switches...I think they will make animating a lot faster.

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As I say, turning off the switches creates more keyframes than turning them on. Don't worry about it. We'll sort something out specially for the SO characters separately later. (I was hopping some animtors would chime in here to get a consensus early.)

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As I say, turning off the switches creates more keyframes than turning them on. Don't worry about it. We'll sort something out specially for the SO characters separately later. (I was hopping some animtors would chime in here to get a consensus early.)

 

You can turn the switches off in the Properties of the character, Ken...then it would default to "off". Is that too inconvenient? Whoever rigs the characters can set it up that way if it is decided that's the way the SO characters should be set up. Also, the bones that are keyed are going to have a "z" in front of their name, so they will be at the bottom of the timeline out of the way.

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You can turn the switches off in the Properties of the character, Ken...then it would default to "off". Is that too inconvenient?

 

Not at all. That's probably the way I'd do it if we go that way. The problem is that an efficient standard is difficult to set without others input. Without that I have to go with my gut.

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I think that a new user wouldn't know that the switches were there initially, that's why I would rather leave them on by default. The individual animator is going to have their own preferences, but it can be easily turned off if they aren't going to be used. Personally, I love the switches...I think they will make animating a lot faster.

 

The switches are a very, very nice concept.

 

In my experience, I didn't find using the pose on/off, sliders a problem when needing to change modes, states. Once I figured out what the names meant. There are too many names that look the same. There are too many options. That is probably what stops people from using different, or new features.

 

The switches, imo, don't make animating that much faster.

 

The switches are for changing modes in general - something that is done infrequently. They also get in the way when grabbing bones (especially the spine). Something done frequently. The switches appear to conflict with the ability to set some items on or off as default. They appear to have problems with states and defined behavior.

 

If the switches didn't create problems - I would say they would be a much, much better interface.

 

Less clutter, with less conflicting channels created makes animating easier, faster. I would imagine with less channels, the real time response is faster as well. Simple distinguishable names makes animating easier, faster - no thinking, reading required.

 

Two or more bones, poses, switches controlling the same thing and "breaking" the other makes animating harder, slower, confusing, frustrating. Especially for a new user. And an old user.

 

I saw nothing wrong with the previous incantation for the squetch rig used on TWO. Except maybe that ik/fk switching was confusing, as it didn't always seem to work. I love the squetch rig. It has me spoiled. I love the FACE interface, I love the Steve's hand gizmo.

 

The biggest problem I see/saw for the squetch rig is the installation process. Therefore, I eagerly look forward to the new instructions, process.

 

All of the above was only the opinion of a lazy person animator, who doesn't want to spend more than 1 week for 10 seconds of animation. And wants the rig to install itself.

 

Those who want to take 3 months to tweak the bejeebers out of 10 seconds might see it differently.

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By the sound of this I maybe better to make a body menu just like the face. :huh:

 

For speeding up the install, if you can get some coders/programers for AM to set up a script reader you can automate the reset compensates.

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DJ, if you are referring to a switch interface, I already thought of that. The interface would have to face the viewport, which it can't do unless you add another camera, which I don't want to do.

 

Yes it would be nice to automate the recompensates, but I doubt you'll find anyone willing to write the code to do it.

 

SWITCHES WILL BE REMOVE. END OF DISCUSSION.

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I would really like to chime in. Really! But I didn't catch this conversation when it was first starting out and now I'm not even sure I know what you're talking about. I trust you guys will make the wisest and most benevolent decision. :)

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I would really like to chime in. Really! But I didn't catch this conversation when it was first starting out and now I'm not even sure I know what you're talking about. I trust you guys will make the wisest and most benevolent decision. :)

Don't worry I lost track a long time ago.

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SWITCHES WILL BE REMOVE. END OF DISCUSSION.

 

That's a shame.

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I spoke to soon.

C D G K N R S TH Y Z_BVH and L_BVH in the controls seem to do nothing.

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I spoke to soon.

C D G K N R S TH Y Z_BVH and L_BVH in the controls seem to do nothing.

 

The "BVH" sliders only work when using facial motion capture data from Zign Track/AM Track, DJ. They are for reducing or increasing the amount of movement provided by that data generally, but those are for adding movement that is not provided by the data.

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O.K.

 

 

You mean the BVH for reducing movement if they are whispering and increase movement if they yell?

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O.K.

 

 

You mean the BVH for reducing movement if they are whispering and increase movement if they yell?

 

The "BVH" Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/Zign_Track" folder are to set up your character so that the data that moves the FACE controls isn't over or under the amount of movement that works for that character.

 

The "BVH" Poses in the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Preston Phoneme Set" folder is to add the things that the motion capture data can't track. Notice that not every phoneme has a corresponding "BVH" Pose, only ones that have tongue movement or lip curling in them. There is some lip curling built into the FACE controls for "oo" type movements, so, the "WQ" Pose doesn't need a "BVH" additional Pose.

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SWITCHES WILL BE REMOVE. END OF DISCUSSION.

 

Should you be in a compromising mood, it would be really helpful if the FACE interface switch was left at least.

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SWITCHES WILL BE REMOVE. END OF DISCUSSION.

Should you be in a compromising mood, it would be really helpful if the FACE interface switch was left at least.

Do you mean the pose slider that turns the interface on and off? I would say that is a lot more than simply helpful. I would say it is really necessary to have that because without a switch to turn it off, the face interface shows up in the final renders.

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SWITCHES WILL BE REMOVE. END OF DISCUSSION.

Should you be in a compromising mood, it would be really helpful if the FACE interface switch was left at least.

Do you mean the pose slider that turns the interface on and off? I would say that is a lot more than simply helpful. I would say it is really necessary to have that because without a switch to turn it off, the face interface shows up in the final renders.

 

Ken was referring to the on-character switches that would make it where you wouldn't have to open the Pose folders to get to things.

 

We have removed the switches from the installations and Squetchy Sam, but, we could have them as an add-on for anyone that wants them. You will be able pick and choose which ones you want to install on your own.

 

---------------------------

EDIT

---------------------------

 

Just to give everyone a heads up, we're going to try to get a release out sometime on Sunday (which would be the day after tomorrow). If we don't find a problem between now and then, that's when it should happen for the biped rigs.

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Ok, fixed the keyframes on the switches when turning the switch pose ON/OFF, except for a user properties keyframe channel. It only keyframes the bones and switch when the switch is actually used.

 

I don't think there is anything I can do about, if you use the poses it breaks the switches, unless you put it back to the default position. As David mentioned in an early post, it's a circularity issue.

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I ran into a few things that slowed me down, so I'm going to have to post the rig updates late tonight. Sorry for the delay...I just have some small things left to do.

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Sorry for the delay. Here are the biped Posable installations and versions of Squetchy Sam with and without switches. There are still some things that will be added to this post as they get finished. I'm out of time and there's a storm running through my area, so I'll post more sometime tonight.

 

If anyone finds a problem, let us know and we'll fix it as fast as we can.

 

 

------------------------

EDIT

------------------------

 

I was in such a hurry this morning, I forgot to put the release date on the ZIP files (the files in the ZIP's were labeled correctly though)...I corrected that and re-posted them. I should have more to post soon...hopefully, tonight.

 

 

 

------------------------

EDIT

------------------------

 

These files have been deleted, the next version is located here.

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There's a problem with the switch add-on installer.

 

Thanks for finding that, Mark! I'll post an update to fix that.

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Okay, here's the biped installation rigs with the fix for the installation of the switches and the standalone FACE installations.

 

The standalones are for characters with rigs other than the Squetch Rig. The installation assumes that the head bone is named "head" and that there is a "hips" bone. These standalones use the Posable installation method, so should be easier to install than they used to be, but v13s or better is required. There is the version that includes the entire bones rig with the FACE controllers, the tongue from the bones rig with the FACE controllers and a version that is just the FACE controllers.

 

I have re-labeled the face setup Action and included it along with the PDF of instructions on its' use...it is the same as the previous release for that, but to reduce confusion I decided to rename it and save it as a v13 Action.

 

If you want to use the macro that is included in these, you'll need to download jEdit.

 

There will be more things posted as they get finished...hopefully, in the next few days or so.

 

If anyone finds a problem, let us know and we'll fix it as fast as we can.

 

 

-----------------------------

EDIT

-----------------------------

 

These files were deleted, the next update is here.

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David and Mark

 

So now I can start placing the new rig into my character and if there is an update I will be able to remove the this rig and replace with the update without re rigging the character?

 

Steve

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Basicly yes. For the most part, any updates will probably be relationship fixes, which will be a drag and drop operation.

 

New features, if any, that require new bones added or reparenting, may need rerigging, but the installation action will probably still be reusable (you'll need to reassign cps and weight/smartskin). It may be possible to add the bones with an installation rig that will use the same action file. I don't see that being the case though, this rig will be it for awhile. The foot gizmo will be an add-on posable installation and other add-ons will will use the same method.

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Excellent!. Thanks to you and David for all the hard work!! The same instructions apply as far as the installation of the poses?

 

Steve

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Yes. If you are rerigging a model that you installed the squetch rig in, using the posable version, the action file should still work (you will need to delete the old bones folder and relationship folder before rerigging). A few poses may have been added, depending on which version it was. So double checking all the poses is recommended.

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I haven't looked at the Squetch rig in quite a while so I decided to download this update and have a play. I look forward to seeing what you guys have been doing.

 

David, I thought that you might like to know that there is a copy of the "13s_posable_squetch_rig_installations_03_12_2008" zip file within the zip file of the same name, which probably doubles the size the download.

 

Anyway, I'll play later.

--------------------------

Edit: Oop! My error. Sorry!

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David, I thought that you might like to know that there is a copy of the "13s_posable_squetch_rig_installations_03_12_2008" zip file within the zip file of the same name, which probably doubles the size the download.

 

Hmmm, that doesn't happen when I unzip the posted Zip file, Paul...I re-downloaded it to check. Is that happening for anyone else? If it is, I can re-zip it.

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Guys I just noticed this......

 

In the TWO characters, to make a character smile you would move the mouth corner null up. But in this rig, he also smiles when you move the sync null to the right. Previously that used to make the mouth wider. In other words, you can't make his mouth wider without him smiling. I think it's as intended, but it's different to last time and the method used in the "Stop staring" book. I can think of instances where a characters mouth would widen but not smile.

 

Also, in the second image, with the null in this position, both lips would be equally curled into the mouth. Ideally between the teeth (the bottom lip definitely needs to be between the teeth for FV sounds).

smile.jpg

curl.jpg

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