The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hello, I'm trying to create water using the very useful tutorial at The Babbage Patch. I encounter a problem, however, when I try to apply the displacement material onto a simple square. The material is set up correctly, but when I apply it to the object, it comes out as a blank white sheet. Here's a screenshot-- I've followed all the instructions very carefully. The only problem I have in mind is a difference in software; the author created his tutorial with A:M 2001, and I'm using A:M 2005. On the other hand, does anyone have a different way of creating an ocean? I'd ultimately like to create a wake from a ship as well, but I have to get by this first. I'd appreciate any help or advice. Thanks! -The Bird Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_black_mage Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 lighting? i dont expect bumps to come out with out lighting, especialy at a top veiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 First off, what version of A:M are you using? Also, this technique is to just simulate a body of water. It is not to simulate a wake created by a boat or other floating objects. What are the details on your material? I'll go through the tutorial to see what has been updated since 2001. ----- Okay, you're not supposed to set any displacement properties on your material when you first look at the material. That comes later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Created the Motion Material. It seems to be moving very fast for ocean water, but that's just a simple change in the Y and Z translate values on second 5. materialtest.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 I'm using V11.1. The material I've created is a turbulence combiner using the "Perlin" plug-in. Perlin has two attributes, one of which is jet black, and the other is pure white with 100% Ambiance Intensity. Perlin has 4 octaves, and the X,Y and Z scales are all set to 6500%, following the instructions. the_black_mage, I see your point, but I doubt its lighting as I've viewed the object from numerous angles, and I don't see a clue of a texture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Wow, you've gotten it working perfectly. Are you using a different version of A:M than I am? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Set the Ambiance Intensity for the white part of the material to 0%. That's not nessisary. Make sure that you haven't set any specular components to the water model as well. I rendered out a quick shot of the material with the new pixel displacement, and it looks a little strange. It looks more like boiling water more than ocean waves. displacementtest.mov I'll keep looking around for a possible solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Okay, I think I know your problem. Get rid of any lights in the scene, and set the WaterMap model's ambiance intensity to 100% (not the ambiance intensity of the white part of the material). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hmmm...I just came across something kinda odd. I downloaded the project file, and the texture didn't even show up with that. I'm starting to think its there, but I just can't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Upload your project file and I'll take a look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Here's an update. The water is no longer flowing like it's in a river. displacementtest2o.mov Something is wrong with the material displacement map. I'm rendering out the bumps with the mov file he provided and it looks very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhibes Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 this technique is to just simulate a body of water. It is not to simulate a wake created by a boat or other floating objects. Correct, the first tut only is for the waves, but the third tut (if you could call it that) is about combining the waves with a wake created by an object http://www.babbagepatch.com/wakes.htm I realize the frustration people have currently with the tuts from my site. I did these way back in version 8.5. There have been many cool improvements it A:M that make many of the steps in my tutorials unnecessary. I have been promising to update these tut for ages, and as soon as I upgrade to v13/14 (currently using 12) I may get is done. I hope Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Charlie, I applied all of your steps to v13 and the only thing that was different was that I had to increase the values for the y translations. You don't need a dense mesh anymore because pixel displacement works great, but something is messing up with the material displacement map. If the A:M team gets that up and running, you could just animate the material right on the model and have it run for as long as you like without having to make a texture or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 Good news! I've done another rendering and this time the texture showed up. I have yet to add the actions, but those will come soon, after some material tweaking. The main problem may have been lighting. I'd like to thank all of you for all your help, and I'd really like to post my work for all of you when I'm done. I have yet to implement the wave wakes, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Thanks a ton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 If I could ask something more of you folks, I'm having trouble creating the motions. According to the tutorial, you are supposed to edit the channels of the material, all within an Action. Likely due to a difference in versions, I can't find the channel editor. The A:M help says to look in the timeline, but the timeline didn't say anything about channels. Or are the channels shown on the timeline? Second of all, I'm a little mixed up on turning on the material displacement. I've found under the material properties a displacement percentage. Do I need to set that to 100% or something? Once again, I'm using V11.1. If anyone could direct me to the channel editor, or an alternative, and help me set up the displacement I'd appreciate it. Thanks! -The Bird Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 I'll just give you the step by step, but in my own words and very concise. Make sure that your units are in Centimeters. 1. Create a new Project. Project > Close. Project > New. 2. Save the Project. Project > Save As. Name the project Water Map and find a folder to store it in. Save after every step. 3. Create a new Material. File > New > Material. Name the Material Water Material. <Right Click> > Rename. 4. Change Attribute to Perlin. <Right Click> > Change Type To > Combiner > Turbulence > Perlin. Expand Perlin so you can see the two new Attributes. 5. Change the first Attribute to Black. <Surface> > <Diffuse Color> > RGB (0, 0, 0,). 6. Change the second Attribute to White. <Surface> > <Diffuse Color> > RGB (255, 255, 255,). 7. Change the second Attribute to have Ambiance. <Surface> > Ambiance Inteisnity (100%). 8. Change Perlin Scale to 6500%. <Scale> > XYZ(6500%, 6500%, 6500%). 9. Change Perlin Octaves to 4. Octaves(4). 10. Create a new Model. File > New > Model. Name the Model Water Model. <Right Click> > Rename. 11. Create a plane in the Model. <Right Click> > Plug-ins > Wizards > Grid. Set Width and Step Width to 320, and set Height and Step Hieght to 240. Choose the XZ Orientation. 12. Drage the Water Material onto the Water Model. 13. Create a new Action. File > New > Action. This will automatically choose the Water Model for the action. Name this action Water Action. <Right Click> > Rename. 14. Expand the Water Action so you can see Water Model. Click the "Show More than drivers" button on Water Model. This will reveal the Water Material. 15. Change the transformations on Water Material over time. <Transform> > <Translate> > Y(0cm on 0:00; 20 on 5:00). 16. Create a new Choreography. File > New > Choreography. Name it Water Choreography. <Right Click> > Rename. Delete Objects KeyLight, FillLight, Rim, and Ground. 17. Rename Camera 1 Water Camera. <Right Click> > Rename. 18. Change Camera 1 to Othogonal. Type (Othogonal). 19. Drag Water Model onto Water Choreogrpahy. 20. Set the Transformations on Water Camera in Water Choreography. <Transform> > <Translate> > XYZ(0cm, 100cm, 0cm). <Transform> > <Rotate> > XYZ(90, 0, 0). 21. Set the Water Camera Focal Length to 62.5. Focal Length (62.5). 22. Drop Water Action onto Water Model in Water Choreography. 23. View out of Water Camera. Render out a five second animation in VGA. Once you've done that, post your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Thanks for the detailed instructions! I've followed your directions very carefully, and rendered out these two 5 sec. videos-- Water Displacement Test 1 Water Displacement Test 2 I'll try speeding up the water a little. -The Bird Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 this technique is to just simulate a body of water. It is not to simulate a wake created by a boat or other floating objects. Correct, the first tut only is for the waves, but the third tut (if you could call it that) is about combining the waves with a wake created by an object http://www.babbagepatch.com/wakes.htm Charlie I never thought of using particles to generate displacement maps - I will have to experiment with that. I did post a method to make a wake using a "moving" displacement map decal ages ago. All the links should still work. [topic=http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6154]http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6154[/topic] [topic=http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4035]http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4035[/topic] [topic=http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7012]http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7012[/topic] It is limited in that I only know how to make decal's "move" in straight lines. By the way, if you are generating displacement maps from A:M, OpenEXR format give you more detail then TGA's, Mov's etc. Richard Harrowell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Thanks rickh, I'll look into that. Another problem I've run into; despite everything I've changed, the water is still flat. It has a nice texture, but I can't get it to work like you did MattWBradbury. Do I have to turn on some sort of displacement map? -The Bird Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Apply the WaterMap animation to a dense mesh as a decal and set the type of decal to Displacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Apply the WaterMap animation to a dense mesh as a decal and set the type of decal to Displacement. You used to need a dense mesh for displacement maps, but the new pixel displacement maps in the current V13 and V14 no longer needs a dense mesh for displacement. Richard Harrowell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I'm actually using V11.1, so I'll use the dense map. Are there huge differences between V11.1 and the latest version? I'll look into upgrading, but I'd likely have to get a new computer first. My current one is rather outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 OK, so to actually create the displacement map, I have to render out this video-- http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/budgi...=WaterTest1.flv Then I import that video into the project as a video decal, and apply it to the grid? Where do I set it as a displacement decal? -The Bird Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWBradbury Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 To add a decal, just right click on your model and go to New > Decal > WaterDisplacementMap.mov (or something along those lines). Double click on the decal in the model's menu, and position it onto your mesh and left click. Open up the decal menu and find where the images are stored and select the map. Once selected, you will be given an option to change the type of decal; you want Displacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 OK, so to actually create the displacement map, I have to render out this video-- http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/budgi...=WaterTest1.flv Then I import that video into the project as a video decal, and apply it to the grid? Where do I set it as a displacement decal? -The Bird Man That diplacement map looked a bit odd. The high points stay high and the low points stay low. Are you animating the right parameter when you make the displacement map? You should start off with a Sine turbulance and then you animate the Z Translate parameter only of the turbulence. Also make sure your amplitude for the turbulence is not over 100% - just under is best. Over 100% and you will start to get some flat spots on the peaks and troughs. It might be a result of the FLv compression, but the movie does seem to have flat regions where the colour is 0,0,0 suggesting you are using over 100% amplitude. Richard Harrowell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Man of Alcatraz Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 I've rendered out a few tests with the decal set onto a large grid. Here is one of them; its very simple, but I'll add the extra effects later-- Large Grid Test 1 The Babbage Patch tutorial briefly explains how to add white caps to the tips of the waves using material effectors, which I can't say I'm familiar with. If anyone could explain them a bit, I'd appreciate the help. One last trick is to add white caps or foam to the waves by adding a material effector to the choreography just hovering above the wave model. To learn more about material effectors, check out this cool tutorial by Jeff Paries. After Effects and Rendering Water Material Effectors Tutorial by Jeff Paries Thanks a ton! --The Bird Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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