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Pose question


Eric2575

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I put several bones in my model and created a new on/off pose. In the new pose I added constraints to the fan bones of the knees and foot. Once created, I tried manipulating the joints in the pose and found that they worked nicely. In order to reset the pose, I just hit delete keyframe in the frames toolbar. This reset my model, but did not turn off the pose.

 

So far, so good. When I got down to the toes, I realized that I needed to add some fan bones to those joints as well. I added one fan bone in the model window, made sure the hierarchy was correct, and went back to the pose window to add the orient like constraint. Doing this, I made sure the Compensate mode was on. When finished, I tried manipulating the joint and wanted to reset after testing it.

 

Now, however, when I delete the keyframe, the pose turns off and the fan bone jumps from vertical to horizontal?? I thought turning the pose back on would correct this, but it doesn't.

 

It seems to me that a pose does not like it when you add bones after the pose is already created? Is there a way around this? What if you had 10 or 20 constraints in a pose and then you realize that you needed to add a fan bone. There has got to be a way to add the fan bone and not start the pose all over again from scratch? Is the solution to create a second pose just for the new fan bone? That seems a little unsophisticated.

 

What is the right way?

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  • Hash Fellow

Not sure that any of this applies, but...

 

First, did you try saving, exiting, and re-opening the project?

 

I often find that the last constraint I've added doesn't kick in until I've done that.

 

Also, you're doing testing in the original pose? Do your testing in a separate "action."

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It seems to me that a pose does not like it when you add bones after the pose is already created?

 

I haven't had any problems adding bones after a pose is made, Eric. Do you have any other Actions open while you're doing this? It could be that you are actually making the changes in the Action by mistake. Occasionally I grab the wrong thing if I have multiple windows open.

 

What I do is make sure everything is closed out before I modify a Pose, even if it's the same Pose that I previously modified. That way, I don't get confused...any more so than I am usually.

 

Hope that helps.

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Still trying to slug my way through his, thanks for the tips guys. So far things are going ok. Robcat, I am now testing the constraints in an action window. I made a short animation of the claw opening and closing, but would like to start over with different constraints.

 

How do I clear the action of the 20 second animation? Sorry for such a stupid question. Do I delete the action altogether? I've found in the past that deleting the action also deletes the pose I have been so diligently working on, I don't want to lose the pose.

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If the pose gets deleted when you delete the Action...you were applying your constraints in the Action. That's why I don't have any Actions open while I am working on a Pose. Edit your Pose, close your Pose window, open a new Action and test it...wash, rinse, repeat. At least that works for me.

 

To delete everything in an action, right mouse click and select "clear"...or delete the Action and start with a new one.

 

Hope that helps.

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  • Hash Fellow

Everything David said and...

 

I've noticed that if I have been testing something out in an action, then go back to a relationship window to add a constraint, the new elements will sometimes get added to the action (I can see them appearing in the PWS) not the relationship, even though I'm not working in the action window.

 

close all the action and relationship windows, then right-click on the relationship in the PWS and select "Edit Relationship"

 

I always watch the realtionship in the PWS to make sure it's aware of what I'm doing.

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Sometimes I believe AM is a living thing and many times it poses challenges that are not logically explained just to see if the user is deemd worthy :blink:

 

Ok, I might be reading a little too much into this.

 

Thanks, David, that's the ticket to clear an action, just forgot about it.

 

Do either of you know why I am getting a small skip when I test a constraint? I am adding a spherical constraint to a toe bone, so the it can only move up and down, not sideways. I use -45 for min lattitude, 0 for min longitude, 45 for max lat, and 0 for min long.

 

It tests ok in a new action, just a slight jump in the motion around the zero point. I am having trouble reproducing this slight hop on a consistent basis. Sometimes it's there and sometimes not??? Still working on that one.

 

Here is another one: Habbit is still sometimes making me wiggle a bone in the pose to test it. To clear the pose back to original, I delete the keyframe. Most of the time this works fine and the pose stays "on" as it should. Sometimes, however, the pose gets turned "off" and things get weird. The last time that happened, I closed the window and went into the PWS, right clicked the relationship and picked edit. That reset the bugger.

 

Ok, I stand by my original statement, AM has a life of it's own and we can just hope to be accepted by AM.

 

;)

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Do either of you know why I am getting a small skip when I test a constraint? I am adding a spherical constraint to a toe bone, so the it can only move up and down, not sideways. I use -45 for min lattitude, 0 for min longitude, 45 for max lat, and 0 for min long.

 

Just a guess, since I haven't seen it...your bone could be flipping over on the 'Z' axis as you cross the zero point. You could do several things to fix it depending on the situation. One method would be to put an "aim roll at" constraint so that the roll handle points at something (maybe a target specifically for that purpose) to keep it the way you want. Another method would be to make that bone the child of another bone that is set to do the same thing as the child bone ("aim at" or whatever), but at a reduced amount...that can make it where the bone never crosses the zero point.

 

Another possibility is that you have reached the limit of the constraint and your bone is twisting in another direction that is available to it. It would depend on the situation how to solve that. Maybe a spherical constraint isn't the best solution for the problem...it depends on what you're trying to do.

 

Hope that helps.

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Well, I'm trying to limit the sideways motion of the toe. Maybe I'm weird, but I can't move my toe laterally. Up and down, no problem, but no sideways motion (at least not worth mentioning). That's what I am trying to constrain in my model.

 

Something funny I noticed in the action window. When I have a bird's eye view and maipulate the bone, the hop occurs. However, when I adjust the view to be pretty much dead on the bone (looking at it sideways), I can manipulate it without the hickup. Weird!

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  • Hash Fellow

I think that's an unnecessary constraint. If you always use the rotate manipulator to rotate bones you never have to worry about it going at an undesired angle. How about just animate the bone up and down and it won't move side to side?

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Well, I'm trying to limit the sideways motion of the toe. Maybe I'm weird, but I can't move my toe laterally. Up and down, no problem, but no sideways motion (at least not worth mentioning). That's what I am trying to constrain in my model.

 

What if you have to spread the toes out? Like if the heel is raised? Me, if I wanted to limit the sideways rotation, I would use an Euler limit...or, I would limit the manipulator to only allow the animator to move the bone in the direction I wanted to allow. On toes I would leave them with a free range of motion though...just my opinion.

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If you always use the rotate manipulator to rotate bones you never have to worry about it going at an undesired angle. How about just animate the bone up and down and it won't move side to side?

 

I'm not sure I follow? Are you saying to use the rotate manipulator when you are trying to create an animation vs just moving the bone pivots?

 

On another note. I added some fan bones in my model and started editing the pose as you guys suggested. That works fine. When I want to tweak how the fan bones work, I read that I can manipulate them in the model and that will change them in the pose. This also works fine as long as the pose is turned off, but when I turn the pose back on after doing some tweaking, the mesh distorts just a little? Why doesn't it stay where it's supposed to after turning the pose back on? Before turning the pose back on, the bone position is identical in the model window and the pose window. After turning the pose on, the bones and the mesh in the pose look altered. See attachment.

Bones_shift.jpg

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  • Hash Fellow

If you always use the rotate manipulator to rotate bones you never have to worry about it going at an undesired angle. How about just animate the bone up and down and it won't move side to side?

 

I'm not sure I follow? Are you saying to use the rotate manipulator when you are trying to create an animation vs just moving the bone pivots?

Yes, using the rotate manipulator assures you are moving the bone on the desired axis and not being fooled by the prespective of the viewing angle you happen to have at the moment. Professional animators (the one's who have to get it right) almost always use the rotate manipulators and crane those bones one axis at at time.

On another note. I added some fan bones in my model and started editing the pose as you guys suggested. That works fine.

That's a lot of fan bones, does each one really have a different enforcement percentage?
When I want to tweak how the fan bones work, I read that I can manipulate them in the model and that will change them in the pose. This also works fine as long as the pose is turned off, but when I turn the pose back on after doing some tweaking, the mesh distorts just a little? Why doesn't it stay where it's supposed to after turning the pose back on? Before turning the pose back on, the bone position is identical in the model window and the pose window. After turning the pose on, the bones and the mesh in the pose look altered. See attachment.

Try closing and re-opening?
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I tried closing and reopening - no difference, still the same distortion.

 

The reason I used all those fan bones is because, quite frankly, I don't really know what I am doing. I saw a tut on a shoulder: http://www.sonofpat.com/shoulders.html, that gave me the idea to try and get a smooth mesh movement when the T-rex walks. The problem is the movement of the mesh around the hip/thigh area.

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I tried closing and reopening - no difference, still the same distortion.

 

The reason I used all those fan bones is because, quite frankly, I don't really know what I am doing. I saw a tut on a shoulder: http://www.sonofpat.com/shoulders.html, that gave me the idea to try and get a smooth mesh movement when the T-rex walks. The problem is the movement of the mesh around the hip/thigh area.

 

 

you could use the same fan bone for several CPs if they all are intended to have the same percentage of the target bone's motion. The fan bone doesn't necessarily have to point at a CP. In fact, when you use offsets it could point just about anywhere and get the same result.

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