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Squetchy Thom


itsjustme

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Is there a scarecrow rigged yet? Not to rush anyone, just wondering.

 

Mark is in the process of rigging him now, he'll let us know when he gets done.

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------

EDIT

------------------------------

 

I'm not sure Scarecrow is finalized: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...20entry143608

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I am still installing your rig, David, and I am getting very edgey about it. All that moving of bones around in the hierarchy, scrolling up and down the PWS to find the right bone to drop it on, unfamiliar paths to remember and did I forget to attach that bone to it's parent? ... I'm sure I must have made a mistake somewhere along the way.

 

I just wondered if there are any plans to automate this part of the installation? This is a job for a machine! I am not a number! Set me FREE! Ahhhhggggg.

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Paul, I am sure that all of this bone - moving could be achieved with some sort of script that would copy - paste things around in the .mdl file. Unfortunately, this is way beyond my programming abilities...

 

Now, Squetchy rig being 'official' TWO Rig... I am sure that there are some programming wizard around with few hours of their time that could be used for good purpose... nudge, nudge, wink, wink...

 

drvarceto

 

p.s. although it is confusing and tedious experience, it seems that it is not that easy to make mistake in moving the bones around...

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moving could be achieved with some sort of script

 

Exactly what I was thinking. The naming convention that David has used seems ideal for self directing a bit of code to sort the bones into the correct hierarchy. You could probably do it in a decent text editor with a script to direct the operation but a plugin would be ideal. It's too long since I did any coding to go down that road right now.

 

It just looks like David had it it in mind when he built this rig.

 

although it is confusing and tedious experience, it seems that it is not that easy to make mistake in moving the bones around...

 

Oh yeah? I'm capable of anything! ;)

 

___________________________________________

 

EDIT 1 :

 

I have come across a possible mistake in the path name which follows the INSTALL tag in the left forearm installation:

 

left_forearm_FK comes as the child of a bone called

 

left_forearm_INSTALL_base_bone/hips/chest_and_arms_to_chest_target_SQUETCH/left-shoulder_FK/right_bicep_FK

 

Surely that should read left_bicep instead of right_bicep?

 

___________________________________________

 

EDIT 2 :

 

Another thing that has me puzzled:

I have just about finished moving the bones around in the hierarchy but I am left wondering where 'left_finger_index_1_IKFK' has gone. The path given is ' model_bone/left_hand_IKFK/left_hand_carpal_index_IKFK/left_finger_index_1_IKFK but perhaps I have accidentally deleated it or buried it elsewhere in the hierarchy. I am trying to install left_finger_index_3_IKFK and left_finger_index_2.

 

Note that the path currently refers to model_bone rather than base_bone.

 

David, there is a bone called left_finger_right_1_IKFK and I wonder if this is the bone that should be called left_finger_index_1_IKFK

 

Is there a way to search the PWS for a string of letters? I would like to make sure that I have not buried any INSTALL bones.

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Is there a scarecrow rigged yet? Not to rush anyone, just wondering.

Robcat, I'll have scarecrow ready tomorrow evening, est. I have the hands to assign cp's and some minor weighting left to do. The hands I'll have done tonight. This is only the first round of rigging scarecrow, I'm sure I'll be doing it again.

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left_forearm_INSTALL_base_bone/hips/chest_and_arms_to_chest_target_SQUETCH/left-shoulder_FK/right_bicep_FK

 

Surely that should read left_bicep instead of right_bicep?

 

I believe you are correct, Paul. I did the right side first and then copied and renamed bones...there were bound to be a few typos.

 

model_bone/left_hand_IKFK/left_hand_carpal_index_IKFK/left_finger_index_1_IKFK but perhaps I have accidentally deleated it or buried it elsewhere in the hierarchy. I am trying to install left_finger_index_3_IKFK and left_finger_index_2.

 

Note that the path currently refers to model_bone rather than base_bone.

 

"model_bone" is what the "base_bone" used to be named. Sometimes a bone gets accidentally dropped on an adjacent bone...the method I use on the finger_IKFK bones is that I directly drop the 3 bone onto the 2 bone then that onto the 1 bone then onto the carpal bone and then drop that onto the hand IKFK, it makes it a little eaiser.

 

David, there is a bone called left_finger_right_1_IKFK and I wonder if this is the bone that should be called left_finger_index_1_IKFK

 

I believe your are correct.

 

The naming convention that David has used seems ideal for self directing a bit of code to sort the bones into the correct hierarchy.

 

That's the plan. I would rather have someone make a plugin so that it would be in AM, but, if not, I'll try my hand at a macro in something like jEdit.

 

Sorry about the typos, Paul...I'll straighten it out this evening. Once the bumps are smoothed out and there's an automated way of re-parenting the bones this will be a lot better.

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Here's an update that corrects the typos that Paul found and a few more "model_bone" references that I found. If you find anything else that needs fixing, let me know.

 

If there are any programmers willing to tackle the automation of the re-parenting, it would definitely be faster (and better) than if I were to do it. If there are no takers, I'll make the attempt.

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Hi David

 

I'll give writing a plugin a go today. It will move and then remove the install bones and attach the first child bone to parent if specified.

 

 

First off, congrats on a great job. I know how much work this is!

I tried installing the rig yesterday. It took me just under 2 hours to get to step 14. Step 14 took me right around 2 hours, this should be all replaced by the rig installer plugin. I accidentally deleted a bone I shouldn't have in there, so I couldn't continue on to step 15.

 

Notes:

 

It may be a good idea to mention in the install.pdf that scaling of the install bones should always be done in xyz (the corners of the manipulator) unless stated otherwise.

 

step 6)

foot rotate INSTALL, maybe it should only be rotated on the x axis? as it seems to be correct in the other axes already.

 

step 7)

neck install needs scale mentioned too I think.

 

step 8)

shoulder install could parent hand install, or would rotating/scaling the hand install mess it up?

 

for the hand install translate, scale part; is it ok to rotate the hand install or only scale it?

 

step 9)

I had to unhide the shoulder, bicep and forearm bones for this step.

 

step 10)

left ring install black bones were hidden

 

I found it easiest to position the finger install bones if I first translated them from the top view so that their pivot was at the main pivot of the finger. Then I turned so each finger was pointing straight at me then rotated the install bone to point straight at me and translated it to the center of the finger.

 

I scaled the finger install bones so that the black finger bones ended at the finger tip.

 

step 14)

 

I found a few typos in the bone names too, most of which have already been mentioned, I'll list all that I found though.

 

left_forearm_INSTALL_base_bone/hips/chest_and_arms_to_chest_target_SQUETCH/left_shoulder_FK/right_bicep_FK

has right_bicep

 

right_hand_carpal_middle_INSTALL_base_bone/rightunderscoregeom

missing hand?

 

INSTALL_model_bone

a couple of these (sounds like you already got them)

 

found an errant bone shortcut in a relationship.

Relationships\user props\animation_controls\right_arm_FK_IK\Bones\right_hand_INSTALL

 

Thanks agian for all of your hard work! I haven't gotten to the cp assignment step, but I think once the rig installer plugin this rig will be as easy or easier to install than the 2001 rig.

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I'll give writing a plugin a go today. It will move and then remove the install bones and attach the first child bone to parent if specified.

 

You sir, are a prince! Thanks Noel! You saved me loads of headaches.

 

I'll give writing a plugin a go today. It will move and then remove the install bones and attach the first child bone to parent if specified.

 

I'll add that to the documentation.

 

foot rotate INSTALL, maybe it should only be rotated on the x axis? as it seems to be correct in the other axes already.

 

Yes, I should have made that clear...it's only for the 'X' axis rotation. I'll note that in the documentation as well.

 

neck install needs scale mentioned too I think.

 

I'll make that note as well.

 

shoulder install could parent hand install, or would rotating/scaling the hand install mess it up?

 

for the hand install translate, scale part; is it ok to rotate the hand install or only scale it?

 

It might make things easier to parent the hand INSTALL to the shoulder INSTALL...the biggest thing with the rotation of the hand is that it needs to be rotated on the 'Z' the same as the forearm because of the targets in the hand that the forearm1 and forearm2 aim at (although, on second thought, I think I made that a non-issue with where I put the targets in the installation version...I'll have to check). I didn't think about the 'Z', I made an assumption that might not be true all of the time. So, maybe making the hand INSTALL a child of the forearm INSTALL would be the way to go...I'll fix it tonight.

 

step 9)

I had to unhide the shoulder, bicep and forearm bones for this step.

 

step 10)

left ring install black bones were hidden

 

 

I'll fix that tonight and I'll get the typos as well. Thanks a lot, Noel!

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Rig Installer plugin is roughed out, baring any misconceptions in my design, it should be ready early next week.

 

Very cool, Noel! Hopefully, all typos will be found by then.

 

I also noticed this rig is not IK/FK switch ready.

 

What does it need added, Mark? All I did was make it an on/off IK/FK...I didn't know what else to add when I did it (and still don't). I remember something about picking which one would follow the other, but I didn't pay close enough attention to completely understand. I can add whatever it needs once I find out.

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David, this is the way I have it set it up in the 2001 rig, you need to translate the ik hand target to the hand in FK 100%, then when you turn on IK the percentage is 0% leaving a forced keyframe automaticly (in ver 13). The ik setup is a kinematic constraint on the forearm, turning off the constraint 0% in the fk pose, the forearm is force keyframed leaving the arm in place. I also had to add an aim at constraint on the elbow rotator to the forearm in fk so when ik is turned on, the elbow stays in position.

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David, this is the way I have it set it up in the 2001 rig, you need to translate the ik hand target to the hand in FK 100%, then when you turn on IK the percentage is 0% leaving a forced keyframe automaticly (in ver 13). The ik setup is a kinematic constraint on the forearm, turning off the constraint 0% in the fk pose, the forearm is force keyframed leaving the arm in place. I also had to add an aim at constraint on the elbow rotator to the forearm in fk so when ik is turned on, the elbow stays in position.

 

Thanks, Mark!

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I need some opinions, that's why I'm posting this one. I'm just posting Squetchy Thom for now, I haven't made any changes to the installation version for this yet. In making the rig compatible with the IK/FK switch with follow I came to the conclusion that the targeting bones weren't necessary and actually screwed with it quite a bit. What I did was eliminate the targeting bones, got rid of the arm IK control bones and changed the IK hand controllers to nulls. The reason I went with nulls is that both IK and FK look exactly the same if I don't. It's a lot more intuitive this way, there is no elbow control you just grab either the bicep or forearm to rotate the elbow. To test the IK/FK switch, you'll need to use v12.0n+ or the alpha for v13 (there's still a slight twitch when changing).

 

Show of hands on the arm setup?

 

-----------------------------------------

EDIT

-----------------------------------------

 

The roll method of the nulls will be "Z singularity"....I forgot to do that, it's late in my day.

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Heya again,

 

Still struggling with the rig on my end. I've been having a lot of slowdowns since I installed Tiger, but the 10.4.3 patch is killer. Nothing works any more, and Hash seems wont now to allocate basically all available virtual memory. (Not kidding here -- I just checked, and it's using 3 GIG.)

 

I think I need to roll back to Panther.

 

Anyway, I get 2.5 - 4 fps moving bones in your rig around, and it drops to 1fps when I'm recording the video. I don't think I can do it with this laptop. I'm sorry I made the offer. I don't know why AM is so sluggish moving bones around; even with lots of relationships in Blender or Maya my laptop holds up.

 

Then again, since someone's already working on a plugin to do the heavy lifting maybe the video tute isn't worth it anyway.

 

So I'll keep watching. I can't imagine what it would be like to attempt actually animating with a rig this heavy on my machine, though. I'll try again once I've reinstalled Panther; I don't know what Apple did but Tiger is just unusable with 512 meg of system ram if you're doing anything more interesting than listening to music and surfing.

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Then again, since someone's already working on a plugin to do the heavy lifting maybe the video tute isn't worth it anyway.

 

I think the video tute will still be necessary, the re-parenting of bones will just be a lot faster. Anyone unfamiliar would benefit from the video tute...let us get the installation finalized so that the tute will only have to be done once. It takes a little while to iron out the kinks.

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Well this won't help much but I cant get the IK/FK switch working. I installed 12.0n+ couldn't try it on v13.

frame 0 I position arm FK go to frame 10 hit the IK/FK button and it jumps back to IK position.

The only way I could get it to work was forcing a keyframe with the keymodel and keyconstraints filters on but that gave me about a 100 bones keyframed in the PWS. The elbows seem to work fine like you have them. I didn't do a lot of testing with them but they seem to position OK.

Am I missing a step to get the IK/FK switch to work?

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Then again, since someone's already working on a plugin to do the heavy lifting maybe the video tute isn't worth it anyway.

 

I think the video tute will still be necessary, the re-parenting of bones will just be a lot faster. Anyone unfamiliar would benefit from the video tute...let us get the installation finalized so that the tute will only have to be done once. It takes a little while to iron out the kinks.

 

Okay then, I'll keep trying. I've wriggled my way up to the hands; once I have a better idea of how all these things go together I'll reinstall Panther and try a few takes of the video.

 

One thing I don't get -- it says to rotate the legs to make the gray feet bones orient like the feet, but when I load your rig over the Jane model they're already aligned? I just left it as was.

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Hi David.

 

I don't like the null for the ik setup, I do like using them, but they seem too large, in my setups I use smaller ones. I know the you are keeping it the same size of the hand, but I had no problem with the way you had it setup before. I like the fact you got rid of the ik elbow control, this is how I set it up in my rig. Is there a reason for showing both the bicep and the forearm, you can use either one to adjust the elbow (is it for keying for the switch). And the last thing, it's a request, I think you should add a hips lower control home, like you have the chest control home. Having a reference point for the hips lower control will make it easier to set back to original position, since it does squetch.

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One thing I don't get -- it says to rotate the legs to make the gray feet bones orient like the feet, but when I load your rig over the Jane model they're already aligned? I just left it as was.

 

If they're already fine, I would just leave them as is. On the Jane model I rotated a few degrees...it wasn't much.

 

I don't like the null for the ik setup, I do like using them, but they seem too large, in my setups I use smaller ones. I know the you are keeping it the same size of the hand, but I had no problem with the way you had it setup before.

 

Yeah, they are large...you're probably right, I should probably just stick with the bones that I had but maybe make the forearm disappear when it's in IK. I just left both visible because you could use either one to adjust the elbow. The IK/FK with follow really acted screwy with the targets on it, so it kind of forced this change...it is better though.

 

Having a reference point for the hips lower control will make it easier to set back to original position, since it does squetch.

 

You're absolutely right, Mark. I'll add that as well. I'm going to try to have something soon...I hope to get it done by tomorrow.

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Really amazing rig here, great job!!

 

Just my personal preferences...

 

(I like having the IK hands controllers as Nulls too.)

I like the easy native half IK/FK A:M has when you first lay an arm down. I like being able to drag the arm into place by the hand, and then fine tune it if needed by rotating the forearm and bicep. Can't find the FK Hand bone in the bones folder to turn on attached to parent (if that would even work)

 

There's probably a way to do this in A:M that I don't know, but there are so many hundred's of bones, I won't be able to clean up my animation after my first pass. In my own models I put a 1 in front of all my main controls, and a 2 in front of secondary controls, and then the rest I leave, so when I animate and force keyframe all my important bones are at the top of the timeline. (guess I could just learn how to force key on only the bones I will use)

 

I like to have my skeleton really simple, just the bare essential controls, and then have a pose that can make visible fancier manipulation controls. (All those feet bones scare me)

 

Personally I make the hip bone a null, so I can grab it easier and distinguish it from the butt wiggle bone.

 

But those are all just my own preferences, I'm sure every animator has their own, and I'm coming to this thread ridiculously late (and am being to lazy to read through it and see what's been said)

 

Thanks for making such a HUGE contribution to the A:M community!

 

-Alonso

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Can't find the FK Hand bone in the bones folder to turn on attached to parent (if that would even work)

 

The FK hand bone is named "right_hand_controller" or "left_hand_controller" and they are located at "base_bone/hips/chest_and_arms_to_chest_target_SQUETCH/right_shoulder_FK/right_bicep_FK/right_forearm_FK" or substitute "left" for "right" for the other side.

 

In my own models I put a 1 in front of all my main controls, and a 2 in front of secondary controls, and then the rest I leave, so when I animate and force keyframe all my important bones are at the top of the timeline. (guess I could just learn how to force key on only the bones I will use)

 

I don't have a problem renaming bones like that...what would be the bones numbered "1" or "2"? Can I get a show of hands on this?

 

Personally I make the hip bone a null, so I can grab it easier and distinguish it from the butt wiggle bone.

 

Show of hands on this one?

 

I like to have my skeleton really simple, just the bare essential controls, and then have a pose that can make visible fancier manipulation controls. (All those feet bones scare me)

 

The "left_hide_foot_ball_IK_controls" (or right) hides the heel lifter...the toe and heel controls don't have an independent hide pose, but you could hide them when you start. I hesitate to put a hide pose for the heel and toe because there would be dueling hide poses for them.

 

I'll be posting an update tonight if I can get it finished...any of these changes would have to go in the next version. We are still in a state of flux on some of the particulars, hopefully we'll get everything finalized this week. Thanks for the input, Alonso!

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Really amazing rig here, great job!!

 

 

There's probably a way to do this in A:M that I don't know, but there are so many hundred's of bones, I won't be able to clean up my animation after my first pass. In my own models I put a 1 in front of all my main controls, and a 2 in front of secondary controls, and then the rest I leave, so when I animate and force keyframe all my important bones are at the top of the timeline. (guess I could just learn how to force key on only the bones I will use)

 

 

You have to use your keyframe filters if you are keying hundreds of bones that will slow you (and your machine) down big time.

The only keys you should be setting are for the control bones and pose sliders. Learn how to use the filters and they will be your best friend :)

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I didn't get the documentation finished (I've got to get some sleep), but, I'll post the installation version so that Noel can test his plug-in (there's no documentation in it at the moment).

 

Some of the changes:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This version has the arms and legs working with the IK/FK switch with follow (v12n+ and v13alpha).

 

The arms don't have an elbow control any more, now you use the bicep bone to position it.

 

The legs should be a little more resistant to the flipping of the knees.

 

The finger curling should work when bending the fingers...until they move to 90 degrees, that's when

they will have a problem at the moment.

 

There's a new whole body squetch control in addition to the original one. The new one is Robert Holmen's squetch for a ball applied to a character...you can move the source of the squetch. It is able to be controlled using a null that you can unhide. The controls are in the "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/WHOLE_MODEL" area of the pose sliders.

 

There's a target marking the home of the "hips_lower_controller".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There will probably be a few more additions/changes, but, this is a good stopping point until I catch the documentation up. I'll try to finish that up on Tuesday night. Let me know if there are any problems.

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Now I feel almost guilty after all the work you have done on this rig but I'll ask anyway

Shouldn't the bicep controllers be connected to the shoulder controllers or something so the arm control bones stay in the center of the arm when you rotate the shoulder bone?

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Now I feel almost guilty after all the work you have done on this rig but I'll ask anyway

Shouldn't the bicep controllers be connected to the shoulder controllers or something so the arm control bones stay in the center of the arm when you rotate the shoulder bone?

 

It's not really necessary...I don't think, David. The arm controller bones aren't physically connected, so they don't have to be in the center. The arm geometry bones are in the center and have "orient like" constraints on them, so the controller bones can move more in some directions. Has it caused a problem? I could rethink it if it has.

 

I'm going to post a file here for Noel since I don't have full access to my e-mail at the moment.

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Can't wait for the Noel's plugin...

 

Thank you for the amazing work, David...

If (When) you do prepare another instalation documentation, please remember those pesky page breaks ;oD

 

Noel is just about done with the plugin...it shouldn't be very long, Drvarceto. I'll make sure to have page breaks this time :)

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Now I feel almost guilty after all the work you have done on this rig but I'll ask anyway

Shouldn't the bicep controllers be connected to the shoulder controllers or something so the arm control bones stay in the center of the arm when you rotate the shoulder bone?

 

It's not really necessary...I don't think, David. The arm controller bones aren't physically connected, so they don't have to be in the center. The arm geometry bones are in the center and have "orient like" constraints on them, so the controller bones can move more in some directions. Has it caused a problem? I could rethink it if it has.

 

I'm going to post a file here for Noel since I don't have full access to my e-mail at the moment.

 

Nope, it works fine. I just couldn't remember it doing that before is all.

Thats good news about the plugin! It will help out a lot.

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Gotta say I find it strange the way the bones don't move with the arms. I guess it's a physiological thing.

 

I understand how you feel, Ken. The problem I encountered was a lot of uncontrollable twisting of the limbs due to the limits. What happens now is that if you go a direction that the arms are constrained against, the controller just pulls away a little. The shoulders also pull away a little because of the way they are rigged. The big problem is how to maintain the ability to isolate each bone while still having them work together...occasionally the balance gets strained. If any of it is causing a problem, then I need to come up with a better way. Let me know if there is anything I need to fix.

 

---------------------------------

EDIT

---------------------------------

 

I'll take another look at the arms when I wake up...maybe I chose the wrong method.

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Okay, in anticipation of the release of the alpha for the plug-in Noel is working on...here is the latest with instructions. I'm posting this now because I don't know when it will be done, it might not be today, so, don't get upset if it doesn't happen for a couple of days. I don't know what Noel has yet to do, I just wanted to have something available to try it out on when it is released.

 

If you find something that I need to fix, let me know.

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You have to use your keyframe filters if you are keying hundreds of bones that will slow you (and your machine) down big time.

The only keys you should be setting are for the control bones and pose sliders. Learn how to use the filters and they will be your best friend smile.gif

 

Hey Dagoos

I checked my A:M 2002 Complete Guide book by David Rogers and couldn't figure it out. How do I do this? If I use the Key Heirarchy filter on say IK hand I only get keys on the hand, if I use Key Model I get all the moved geometry bones keyed (the hundreds of bones). So which filter do I use to force a key on every control bone only?

Thanks

 

-Alonso

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You have to use your keyframe filters if you are keying hundreds of bones that will slow you (and your machine) down big time.

The only keys you should be setting are for the control bones and pose sliders. Learn how to use the filters and they will be your best friend smile.gif

 

Hey Dagoos

I checked my A:M 2002 Complete Guide book by David Rogers and couldn't figure it out. How do I do this? If I use the Key Heirarchy filter on say IK hand I only get keys on the hand, if I use Key Model I get all the moved geometry bones keyed (the hundreds of bones). So which filter do I use to force a key on every control bone only?

Thanks

 

-Alonso

 

If you force a keyframe with "keymodel" "key rotations" "key translations" filters you should only get the bones which have been previously keyed. Make sure you don't have the key constraints filter on. That could give you hundreds of bones. If thats not it PM me. Just so we dont clutter up Davids thread too much

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An alpha version of the RigInstall.hxt plugin should be released in a few days.

 

It will allow you to: position the Install bones as per the instalation instructions, and then from the model's context menu you'll pick Plugins, Wizards, Install Rig. It will remove the Install bones and show the geometry bones reparenting and attaching to parent the bones it needs. Then all you'll have to do is the bones mode cp assignment.

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Here's today's update...I haven't messed with the arms yet, my work schedule is flipping for a couple of days so I have to adjust tonight.

 

Changes in this version:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Fixed the toes so that they work with the IK/FK follow and fixed their hiding.

 

Updated the "hide_geom" pose.

 

Added the "hide_non_tweaking_bones" pose to get rid of a step in installing (hiding bones you won't need to mess with).

 

Renamed relationships to match poses where needed (it isn't necessary to do, it just makes it where if you get an error when tweaking a pose you can track it down easier).

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

A heads-up to Mark, the poses that are changed or added are, "show_geom_bones", "hide_non_tweaking_bones", "right_leg_FK_IK" and "left_leg_FK_IK". They can be just changed out or added in your next version...only some cosmetic stuff and the follow of the toes on the IK/FK switch are really affected.

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