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Squetchy Thom


itsjustme

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I just got a chance to watch the Expressions Tech Talk (124 MB download) and this is something I used to try my hand at it. Not a conventional rig, but fun to mess with. If you need an extremely squetchy character something like this could be useful. Just move the visible nulls around in an Action to get a feel for it.

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Hi David.

 

I was going to suggest some arm and leg control bones for movement so you could maintain proportions, but I see you added it in version 2. Nice. While scaling the nulls, I noticed the knees and elbows do not scale, is that by design?

 

He's really fun to animate with. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the next update.

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The knees and elbows should be scaling 50% of what the bones on either sides of them are scaling...at least I think it's in the second version (depending on the angle, sometimes the knee/elbow needs to be rotated using the null though). What I'm doing now is putting in a more standard setup so that you can animate him normally and then just distort the body part you want with a null, I should have something new posted in a day or so.

 

Thanks for the input, Mark.

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Once again, a good stopping point for the day. I went through all kinds of complicated crap and then realized a method that would probably do the job that I'm after easier. I wanted IK, so, here he is with a mangled version of David Rogers' IK leg setup (thanks for sharing, David). The squetch is still there, just unhide the controls in the pose sliders menu. What I did on this would be an ideal way to put standard muscles in a character as well...I'm sure it has already been thought of.

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Another snapshot...the arms have a switchable IK setup of sorts, the squetch operates as an addition to the IK stuff (if you reach a limit of the IK setup, you can continue the movement using the squetch controls), I added a bicep roll target and rearranged the pose sliders some.

 

There are still a lot of things that need to be done, but, it's more useful than it was and it's still got the squetchy toys to play with...it'll get better.

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It still needs some work, but, this is once again a good stopping point for this evening. He's got some flex in his biceps now, however there are still some minor things to tweak with them. I'll tackle some more tomorrow.

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Hi David.

 

I like what I see so far, but there are a few things I'd like to suggest. Is it possible to get the IK arm setups to scale and translate to the right positions after you squetch thom? Also, an overall bone the can move the whole upper body, like the hip null in the 2001 rig. There is no way to make him bend over without moving all the squetch bones. There's also no way to rotate the upper body (shoulder area) to the side. I'm sure you had plans for these things already.

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Is it possible to get the IK arm setups to scale and translate to the right positions after you squetch thom?

 

That's one of the things on my to-do list, I've got some possible ways to do it that I haven't had a chance to try yet. I might have to rework a few things to get it done.

 

Also, an overall bone the can move the whole upper body, like the hip null in the 2001 rig. There is no way to make him bend over without moving all the squetch bones. There's also no way to rotate the upper body (shoulder area) to the side. I'm sure you had plans for these things already.

 

Yessir, I just haven't gotten there yet...I get caught up in the little stuff sometimes. I'll try to have a new version up sometime on Monday. Thanks for taking a look, Mark.

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This is just a quick update, I haven't had more than a few minutes here and there to work on this for a while. Things different in this version, when you turn off the IK legs, the FK controls are visible, the upper torso can be manipulated using a non-squetch method, the biceps flex with the turning of the wrists in addition to the flex when bending the arm and I've added some shoulder controls.

 

I still have a lot to do, including fixing the forearms, scaling the IK controls to match the squetching, adding shoulder movement to the IK arms (you have to manually adjust them at the moment) and a few other odds and ends. The best way to use the squetch right now is to move everything using either the IK or FK and then add the squetch.

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Really amazing rig!!!

 

I've played some with it and I think that it is capable of 'Madagascar style' animation!

 

I've tried first version and I felt that squetch is not enough... but version 6 has movement controls and squetch is an option... COOOOOL !!!

 

If it only contained mtpeak2's rig... (which is now my rig of choice, it even behaves better than characres rigged with setup machine that I've played with)

 

Way to go! keep us posted

 

Drvarceto

 

EDIT: On the secend thought: Hey EVERYONE! This is one COOL RIG! It should be raising a lot of dust around here!!!

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Thanks for the feedback, Drvarceto. I still have a lot of things to tweak and add, but it's not a bad start.

 

If it only contained mtpeak2's rig... (which is now my rig of choice, it even behaves better than characres rigged with setup machine that I've played with)

 

I like Mark Skodacek's rig as well, John Keates' rig is also nice. Both of them are in this thread in case anyone hasn't seen them.

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Hey David, I've been following your progress here. This last model is really fun to work with. Very nice idea to combine the hand and elbow control. Your controls are organized well, making it an easy rig to use.

 

Thanks for working on this project and posting your updates. I'll stay tuned...

 

Mark

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Thanks for taking a look, Mark. I'll try to have an update posted by Monday (my schedule is easing up a bit). Oh, I finally got a chance to see your video of the Osipa-style face controls...very nice. Anyone not familiar, it's located here. That's something I'm thinking about incorporating eventually, it looks like it's fun to mess with.

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David, I continue as a lot of enthusiasm their contributions. They have been good me a lot for my models, but my English is not good, but I would like to contribute some experiments that I have carried out thanks to its tutoriales and models.

I have a very basic head model that has Stretch/Squash in head, eyes and jaw and I would like me to give their opinion and to help to improve it.

 

 

A cordial latinoamérica greeting.

Squetchy_Rig.MDL

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David, I continue as a lot of enthusiasm their contributions. They have been good me a lot for my models, but my English is not good, but I would like to contribute some experiments that I have carried out thanks to its tutoriales and models.

I have a very basic head model that has Stretch/Squash in head, eyes and jaw and I would like me to give their opinion and to help to improve it.

 

 

A cordial latinoamérica greeting.

 

I like it so far, Elquintojinete001. It would be fun to see it with some patches distorting...maybe put this rig into a head you have or one of the models on the CD. What more did you want it to be able to do? It looks like it would be great for a cartoony character.

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Well, I got stopped by the clock today...I had the arms in pieces when I realized I had to wrap up for the day. So, I had to look through a few versions to find one that didn't have things broken (at least I didn't find anything wrong in the time I had to check).

 

Updates in this version are:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can squetch the legs while using IK or FK using pose sliders (the other squetch controls are still there in addition to the sliders). If you squetch the thigh and calf to different percentages, you'll have to adjust the foot using the null squetch controls when using the IK controls (the toes stay pointing if you don't).

 

The shoulders follow the arms a little when using IK, they can still be adjusted when in IK manually as well.

 

I fixed the forearms and adjusted the CP weighting around the hips, it deforms a lot nicer now.

 

You can use IK on one leg if you want now...I figured that could be useful.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Still lots to do, I should have the arms finished in a day or so if I get the free time I'm expecting.

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Okay, here's a version with squetch sliders for the arms added, the null controls are also there still. I set the easily seen sliders' squetch scaling to such a small amount (120% of normal) in order to maintain the elbows...the sub sliders can go higher, but, you will have to adjust the elbows (I'll see if I can clear that up).

 

I still have some things to do, I'll try to knock out some more tomorrow.

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Not a problem, G.

 

This version fixes everything I had broken in the last version (as far as I can tell), so now you can squetch the arms to 200% like the legs with the sliders (and the other squetch controls are still available as well). There are still a couple of additions and tweaks needed, but it's closer.

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Okay, now the repairs are done. In this version:

 

---------------------------------------------

The shoulders are improved a little (hardly noticeable).

 

The forearms have been re-rigged (works much better now).

 

I added some mitten style hands (haven't rigged those yet).

 

The CP weighting on the arms has been redone.

 

The biceps roll properly now.

----------------------------------------------

 

I'll install the hand controls next, then I've got a few other assorted small things to add. Hopefully, I'll get most of it done in the next couple of days.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It took me longer to get back to this than I thought, but, better late than never, I guess.

 

Changes in this version:

-------------------------

Changed from mitten hands to hands with fingers.

 

Hands are rigged.

 

Translating the finger controllers moves the carpals.

 

Hand clench/spread poses added for each hand.

 

Squetch sliders for each finger and each joint of the fingers.

 

Added a pose to hide/unhide shoulder controls.

 

Added a pose to hide/unhide finger controls (default is hidden).

 

Added finger curl sliders for each finger.

----------------------------

 

Plenty of things still to be done, but it's improving.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alright, now I need everyone to try this rig out and suggest improvements/corrections. Everything should work, but, maybe I missed something or maybe you see how it could be better. I have named this one RC1 for "Release Candidate".

 

Changes in this version:

-----------------------------------------------------

Stomach in/out added.

 

Chest in/out added.

 

Pose that unhides all of the geometry bones for easier CP weighting added.

 

Whole hand left and right squetch added (to squetch just the palms, squetch the hand, then squetch each finger1 to compensate).

 

Pose to unhide the finger squetch controls/targets added.

------------------------------------------------------

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As usual, David, awesome effort here. I haven't checked on your progress since the early versions, and I'm impressed with how far you've taken this. He's a fun guy to work with. The time you've spent is huge, I'm sure.

 

Thanks for all of your hard work! Now I'm going to go put him through a good workout.

 

Mark

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Is there any way to lock the hand bones for use with Fk?

 

If it were a snake, it would've bit me! Thanks for pointing that out David!

 

Here's Release Candidate 2. Changes in this version:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The hands lock with arm movement...I made it lock on both IK and FK.

 

Added on-the-hand finger curl and hand clench controls (rotate the roll handles on the bones pointing up...they appear when you set "show_finger_controls" to on).

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't think I broke anything in updating, but, if you see anything broken or don't like something I did let me know.

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Nice changes on locking the hands! Very good.

 

Here are some observations/suggestions:

 

I've spent the last few weeks learning how to animate walks. After trying several different rigs I've found that having pelvis movement completely independent of upper body movement is very valuable. What I'm thinking of is the functionality of John Keates' rig (and others) where the hips pivot from the belly button and the torso is completely unaffected.

 

For example, in a sexy feminine walk the hips swing side-to-side and rotate, pivoting from the navel, while the upper body is swaying and twisting in the opposite direction. In John's rig the upper and lower body can be animated independently without messing up the other. Unless I'm missing something, there's really no way to do this with your rig. The "hips_IK" moves the upper body as well. "Chest-FK" does work as I would expect, however, which is nice. Also, By having the upper and lower body movement completely independent, it's much easier to change one type of walk style into another. It makes it less likely to have to unanimate unintended movement, too.

 

How tough would it be to add knee target controls for independent knee movement? The "knee_squetch_targets" could be used for this, I guess, but there would be the "problem" of unnatural shifts because the squetch control allows movement in all directions.

 

One other thing I've noticed is that the heel control only moves the heel itself, not the whole leg. If the heel is raised, shouldn't the whole leg lift?

 

It's a great rig as is, David, so don't feel obligated to add or change anything. I'm amazed that this could be used for either a cartoony or realistic character because of how well you've laid out everything. I love the hide/show options.

 

Great job!

 

Mark

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First, thanks for giving the rig a workout, Mark!

 

How tough would it be to add knee target controls for independent knee movement? The "knee_squetch_targets" could be used for this, I guess, but there would be the "problem" of unnatural shifts because the squetch control allows movement in all directions.

 

There's a knee target that is a child bone of the "foot_control_right/left_IK", if you rotate that bone the knee will move...that's in IK, in FK the knee can move anywhere using the "thigh_right/left_IK/FK" bones. I could add another control though, I'll look at that tonight.

 

If the heel is raised, shouldn't the whole leg lift?

 

Here I'm not quite understanding...the heel control is sort of like when you need the foot to say walk a balance beam and the foot needs to wrap around it. In IK, the "foot_control_right/left_IK" bone points the toes if you either move that bone down or lift the character by the "hips_IK" bone. Can you give me an example of a use? It might just need to have something else manipulated to get what you're talking about...are you talking about in FK?

 

I've spent the last few weeks learning how to animate walks. After trying several different rigs I've found that having pelvis movement completely independent of upper body movement is very valuable.

 

I'll take a look at that tonight. Thanks for such a thorough evaluation, Mark! It really helps a lot. Oh, and the resizing of the hand controls on RC2 when scaling the arms will be fixed in the next version as well.

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Hi David,

I took a look at your helpful descriptions...

 

Knees first:

There's a knee target that is a child bone of the "foot_control_right/left_IK", if you rotate that bone the knee will move...that's in IK, in FK the knee can move anywhere using the "thigh_right/left_IK/FK" bones.

What I had in mind was control of knee direction completely independent of the hips and feet. For example, some people walk with their knees almost touching in the passing pose, and others walk with the knees flared out. It's very handy to be able to move the knee without pulling the foot along with it.

 

Feet:

After testing your foot setup more, I think your foot solution is probably simpler and more predictable than what I've been using. Your balance beam example described your intent for the heal control well.

 

Hips:

I'll take a look at that tonight.

Thanks. I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on this.

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David and Mark, I owe you guys each a future in-depth critique. I really appreciate it. I found a few things that I had broken in the FK leg controls and addressed the issues brought up thus far. Let's see what you think.

 

Changes in this version:

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Knee rotation independent of the foot control added in IK (control is on the back of the foot below the heel control...it rotates on the Y axis).

 

Added a controller to isolate the hip manipulation (it's the bone pointing downward from the hips).

 

Fixed the broken FK leg controls.

 

Fixed a right foot squetch problem (it didn't have a "scale to reach" set, so it didn't match the left foot).

 

Fixed the scaling of the hand controls when scaling the arms.

 

Fixed the lack of leg rotation (I didn't notice it until I was working on the independent knee rotation).

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

In the interest of showing my sources and giving credit where it is due:

 

The IK foot controls are an adaptation of a David Rogers design...he has a tutorial posted here. Also, the carpal bone controls are the result of reading a series of postings that Raf Anzovin made to this forum (I don't remember where it's located though...anyone remember?) and the bone squetching came from watching the Expressions Tech Talk which you can find here.

 

Once again, if anyone finds anything broken or in need of modifying let me know.

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Hey David, I feel like the guy who rubbed the magic lamp and had his wishes granted. You nailed it, buddy (Genie). It works great.

 

I don't have time this morning to work with it more, but tonight I'll being playing like mad. :lol:

 

Thanks for the awesome work!

 

PS. I'm very curious how you added the extra hip and knee controls. I'll look into that tonight, too.

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Thanks, Mark. If you notice anything else, let me know. I appreciate any critiques I get, it takes a lot of time to give a thorough review.

 

I'm very curious how you added the extra hip and knee controls.

 

The hip control is just a bone I added as the parent of a couple of the squetch nulls...the ability was there before, just not in an easily controlled manner. The knee control is a bone that I added as the parent to the knee and thigh targets...so, it is an IK control only.

 

I also forgot to mention that I changed the naming convention from "IK/FK" to "IKFK" so that it wouldn't cause problems when using Expressions (the "/" would be seen as a division symbol).

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David, thanks a lot for the great new changes and the info on how you did it. Amazing...

 

I haven't abandoned you here. It's been really busy this week and I haven't had as much time to work with the rig as I'd hoped. By the end of the weekend I hope to have spent enough time with it to comment more.

 

Mark

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No problem for me, Mark. I'm probably going to give it a week and if I don't hear about any problems I'll do some general organizing and then post a final version...anyone with any issues, feel free to post them here. Once I get this rig finalized, I've got uses for it.

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D'oh! I fixed a couple of things....sometimes my head doesn't work too good. I'll get it right one of these times.

 

Changes in this version:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Fixed the FK on the arms to work correctly.

 

Made the IK arms percentage sliders instead of on/off.

 

Made the IK legs percentage sliders instead of on/off.

 

Cleaned up some of the organization.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hey David

 

This rig is turning out real nice I'm surprised more people aren't raving about it. nice rig to get away from that stiff cg character syndrome.

 

Just curious if you are planning on adding a simple face to the model when the rig is finished?

 

One small request could you throw in one of those nifty rotation limits on the forearms, so they can only be rotated on the x axis?

 

thanks

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David, this is turning into an awesome rig. One thing I noticed is your slider percentages, importing this rig into another model will reset the sliders back to 0% to 100%. You would have to import the mesh into the rig instead to keep the percentages the way they are, unless this changed in recent versions, I haven't tried lately. Keep at it.

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David, here's a great article written by Mike Brown regarding setups for good CG puppets. Take a look...

 

www.anticz.com/puppets.htm

 

Very cool, thanks Mark.

 

Just curious if you are planning on adding a simple face to the model when the rig is finished?

 

I'm a little reluctant to put an actual face on Thom...he's an icon. I did add the fingers to make sure that everything in the hand would work like I wanted. I thought about putting a hat on him so that you could easily see what direction he was looking since he doesn't have a nose. Which way would you go, David?

 

One thing I noticed is your slider percentages, importing this rig into another model will reset the sliders back to 0% to 100%. You would have to import the mesh into the rig instead to keep the percentages the way they are, unless this changed in recent versions, I haven't tried lately.

 

I haven't tried lately either, Mark...but the last time I did, I found out that the values were still there and just had to be re-entered on the slider itself. Of course with the number of sliders I tend to use, it would be a pain.

 

Thanks for hanging with me...I guess I chose to use the "Release Candidate" designation kinda early. Anyway, I'll go ahead and post something even if it may have a few warts. Let's see if this is closer:

 

Changes in this version:

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

Arm controls for IK have rotation limited to the 'X' axis for contolling the elbows.

 

Fixed a problem in the rotation of the hips.

 

Head and neck by default does not orient like the chest, a percentage slider is now added to accomplish that.

 

The default is now FK arms and IK legs....maybe that has been the case, I forget.

 

Turned the roll handles on the model bone, head, neck and chest bones to face front...I don't know why I had them facing backwards.

 

Added an entire model squetch slider...I think that actually happened on the last version.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

There are probably more things to do that I haven't seen yet, but I'll try to nail everything down as soon as I can. Let me know if you see any problems.

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One small request could you throw in one of those nifty rotation limits on the forearms, so they can only be rotated on the x axis?

 

D'oh, I misread this one...the limit on the 'X' for the IK made the elbow unable to move the way it needed to in some positions, so that'll be changed back. I'll see about adding this in the next version. I shouldn't read things when I'm asleep, I guess.

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Itsjustme,

 

I've had some time to play with your rig...

 

I DO HAVE TO SAY THIS! I am amazed how something this good can pass allmost unnoticed in the forum! HEY PEOPLE!!! LOOK HERE!!! THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE NOTICED!!!

 

Really, really, great rig!!! And it is getting better and better with every iteration!

 

I cannot see limits of what can be done with it in the hands of some good animator...

 

I would like to see it with some character other than Thom, so we could see what can be done in the character with facial (and other features)

 

PLEASE, keep us posted

 

Drvarceto

 

just one little thing: when right arm is somewhere about 67 % into fist something weard happens to the fingers...

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Thanks for taking a look, Drvarceto.

 

I would like to see it with some character other than Thom, so we could see what can be done in the character with facial (and other features)

 

Once I get all of the problems fixed, I'll try the rig in another character.

 

just one little thing: when right arm is somewhere about 67 % into fist something weard happens to the fingers...

 

It'll be fixed in the next version. I should have something posted in a day or two.

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One small request could you throw in one of those nifty rotation limits on the forearms, so they can only be rotated on the x axis?

 

D'oh, I misread this one...the limit on the 'X' for the IK made the elbow unable to move the way it needed to in some positions, so that'll be changed back. I'll see about adding this in the next version. I shouldn't read things when I'm asleep, I guess.

I thought you misread that. I should have specified for FK also.

 

As for that hat I think that would work too. anything to just show which way he is looking.

 

BTW and I know this is a long way off but Raf maybe coming out with a scripting language for TSM2 which would be able to install any rig in a character. This rig would be a good candidate for that. Even though TSM2 has S&S controls built in now its still nice to have a choice.

 

I'm interested too in seeing how difficult it will be to install this rig in another character. I will give it a try when its done.

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