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mtpeak2

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Here is the Up/Down Clavical Movement.

(just the "Up" part on this MOV to check Trapezius)

Relationship made before TSM applied.

 

The Shoulder Rig Relationships are apart from this, so they still work after TSM.

Shoulder_A_sor3.zip

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Hi Mark,

 

I've installed your new rig into a character of mine for testing out. Wow!! Fantastic is all I can say. The shoulders especially are superb to work with (in my character anyway) considering the small amount of bones in the design.

 

One thing - I have moved the feet targets slightly and the legs on my model are now always bent when opened in an action. I may work out the problem myself tonight but I thought you would probably know exactly what the problem is and save me some time :D

 

Thanks for the work you've put into this.

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Thanks Dale.

 

It sounds like the problem is in the balance setups. If you turn both balance slider to 0% are the knees still bent? If so, go into the modeling window and into bones mode. Shift click the Balance Feet Level to unhide the control bones. The top part should be set at the same height as the hip null and the bottom should be set at the ankles. Adjust from the front view. Here's a side view so you can see the bones I'm talking about.

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Mark, that didn't work. Something has obviously gone awry somewhere. I think it's going to be quicker for me to start over and install the rig again. I will let you know how I get on.

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I have one more idea, Check the right and left foot target 2 bones under the heel bones, that needs to be at the ankles (tip of the calves) also. If you want, I'll take a look and see if I can find the problem.

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Thanks Mark. I got your personal email before looking here so replied to that.

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Hi Mark, I'd really appreciate you taking a look at my rigged model as you suggested. I've just sent you an email. Thanks for your help with this - you can show me up and tell me what I've done wrong :D

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The problem was in the IK leg setup. When scaling and translating the legs use the pelvis bone, that will scale and translate the control bones also. Same goes for the arms, use the back 3 bone, you can reposition the head, neck and back 3 bones after. If you have any more problems just let me know. Check your mail.

 

Maybe I should setup a rigging corner where people could send me there models that they want rigged with this rig or the 2001 rig (installed only, no smartskin, maybe minor cp weighting). Better than the TSM, you don't have to do anything.

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Mark that's brilliant! I've now had chance to test the 'repaired' model and it's working great. I'm very grateful to you for sorting me out.

 

Your 'rigging corner' idea sounds good but I have a feeling that you could be inundated with characters to rig. I think it only fair that you charge something for this service as a lot of your time may be taken up.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your help - I should be posting some animation soon :D

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Wooo Hooo!!!!

 

I've tried the rig earlier, it seemed OK...

Yesterday I had some more time to play with it...

 

That shoulder movement is nothing short of perfect!!!

Feet, knees they move just as they should to...

Wherever I seemed to pull the hand, it dosn't seem to broke!!!

 

Mtpeak2, you've made me a lot of job to transfer my models to this rig... but I think that effort will pay...

 

Experiences with the transfer... anyone?

 

And one more thing! Which is the best way to go with this transfer...

 

Drvarceto

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Quadruped rig?

 

Is Tarzan able to walk on all fours? Or is that entirely different rig?

 

Drvarceto

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Is Tarzan able to walk on all fours? Or is that entirely different rig?

 

It's an entirely different rig. :D Do a search for Quadruped Rig Mtpeak2.

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Here is my shoulder Rig.

 

I know it is Insanely heavy, but it works for my model.

 

Aim at Null constraints are used with "Scale to Reach" on "Z Axis Only" on Pectorals and Trapezeus. The Up/Down & Back/Forward are 2 Separate Pose sliders (-50/50) that Drive the Shoulder Bone.

 

ALSO, I used bones with "Falloff" Weighting. "Edit CP Weight" in some cases for difficult point assignment.

 

Cheers

 

Zipped Mov file 965KB

ShoulderBones_BXsor3z.zip

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Wooo Hooo!!!!

 

I've tried the rig earlier, it seemed OK...

Yesterday I had some more time to play with it...

 

That shoulder movement is nothing short of perfect!!!

Feet, knees they move just as they should to...

Wherever I seemed to pull the hand, it dosn't seem to broke!!!

 

Mtpeak2, you've made me a lot of job to transfer my models to this rig... but I think that effort will pay...

 

Experiences with the transfer... anyone?

 

And one more thing! Which is the best way to go with this transfer...

 

Drvarceto

trajcedrv, thanks.

 

As for the transfer, you can send them to me if you want.

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Mike, the shoulder looks great. Can it be simplified? It would make a nice drag and drop add-on rig.

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mtpreak2, I think that just a few words would suffice...

 

There is old chinese proverb 'Do not catch me a fish, teach me how to catch one' - This is translation of the translation of the translation, but I think that this is the essence of it...

 

I remember my first try of transfering rigs, before 'show some backbone' - I started transfering from the lowest part of the hierarchy, so I moved three times more bones than I would if I used scaling of the whole hierarchy...

 

So, please, if it is not great trouble, could you explain in few steps how to make rig transfer...

 

1. erase geometry

2. save rig with ...

3. Start with using scale manipulator on...

 

etc...

 

I would also like to sent you some geometry, as soon as I do final revisions...

 

Drvarceto

 

p.s. I think that some easy fingers would help...

 

p.p.s. thanks in advance

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Hey Mike,

 

That is an impressive shoulder you have there. Can it hav movment which is independant of the arm? Also, what happens when the arm is right down?

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Can it have movment which is independant of the arm?

The Rig is Separated into "2" Separate Pose Sliders (-50/50) "Up/Down" & "Back/Forward" that Drive the Shoulder Bone, so it is some what Independent of the Arm Driving it........that way it can shrug, etc. without the Arm Influence. A Main Shoulder Constraints Slider is Also Necessary for all these constraints.......So 3 Total Per Arm.

 

The -50/50 sliders Drive the Shoulder Bone & the Main Shoulder Constraint Relationships respond following along with the Arm.

 

Also, what happens when the arm is right down?
The Arm has the Targets Parented to it (Orient Like) & Rotating the Arm Down (or Up) would have "slight" influence on the Rig reacting to its movement (Mainly Pectorals) ...... then I can Add the -50/50 Shoulder Slider influence on the Arm appropraitely for Shrugs, etc

 

I'll try to post a Mov on this soon.

 

In the Mean Time here are some of the Principles:

Aim at Null constraints are used with "Scale to Reach" on "Z Axis Only" on Pectorals, Clavical and Trapezeus. The Up/Down & Back/Forward are 2 Separate Pose sliders (-50/50) that Drive the Shoulder Bone.

I used a "Aim at Scale to Reach Z Axis" on the "Trapezeus" From the Target at the Deltoid to the Base of the Neck Target..........I used Lots of Null Targets.

.On the Latissimus Dorsi, a bone running from under the arm Aimed at the Hip (Not shown)...... I set up an "Aim at Scale to Reach Z Axis" to a Hip Target.

 

Again, "Falloff" Weighting. "Edit CP Weight" in some cases was an integral part of this.

 

I like it being an "independent influence" from the Arm because it "is" an independent Motion.

When I move my Arm Down, my shoulder Rig does move a bit down because the Targets are offset from the Arm & are Parented under teh Arm. So if I reach Down or Shrug, my arm still just points down.

 

Hope I got all this described properly!! .....and that it might give someone else some more ideas!

 

Figuring this out made my Brain hurt !

 

I did a lot of looking at other Rigs in AM & some other programs

........ mostly looked at Anatomy books. God made the best Design!

 

Cheers!

Edited by MikeSanderson

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trajcedrv, Here are some instructions and rig only model.

 

First thing, import rig model into your model or drag and drop bone and relationship folders onto your model in the PWS.

 

Scale the model bone (click in empty space) or the root bone using the scale manipulator to get it roughly to size. (hips should be positioned where you want it)

 

Using the scale manipulator, scale the pelvis bone to get the legs closer to position.

do the same for the arms using back 3 bone. You can rescale these bones manually after positioning. (scaling neck bone to bring the rest of the hierarchy back to scale)

 

Manually size and position the bones to fit your model's geometry and assign cps.

(foot bones should remain vertical)

 

Shift click the foot targets to unhide the setup. Translate the foot targets to the base of the toe bones using the translate manipulator. Manually move the foot target 2 bones to the base of the foot bones. Shift click the foot targets to rehide.

 

Under the pelvis bone, shift click the left and right IK & FK thigh bones and manually scale and position them to the geometry bones. Under the left and right shoulders, shift click the left and right IK & FK bicep bones and scale and position them manually to the geometry bones. Under the back 3 bone, unhide the other shoulder bones and scale and position them the same as the geometry shoulder bone. (remember to shift click these setups to rehide)

 

Shift click the balance feet level. From the front view only, drag the pivot points of the setup to align with the hips (should be OK since you scaled the rig with the hips where you wanted them). The base and tips of the setup bones should align with the base of the foot bones, the same goes for the null targets. (rehide setup)

 

Last thing, shift click the spine controler bone. For the spine controler, base at the hips, tip at the base of the neck. The head controler. base at the base of the neck and tip at the tip of the head. (this isn't necessary, but I like to have in position)

 

Well I hope I covered everything. If you have any problems or questions, just ask.

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Thanks to MikeSanderson for sending me ideas and all the talk about shoulders, I did a little experiment using Mike's technique (simplier setup). In this clip I used the FK arm setup, rotating the shoulder bone the setup moves automaticly. In the IK setup the shoulder is all automatic.

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I been trying more aim at constraints with scale to reach. I think Tarzan is on steroids.

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That's a fine looking shoulder, Mark. I'd be curious to see a quicktime with the arm straight up and straight forward. Very nice job on the rig as well.

 

Is there a reason you put the "elbow position" on a slider instead of a visible null that you can grab?

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Thanks Mark.

 

Here's the QT you requested. It's not perfect, but it's effective. Just so everyone knows, this shoulder setup is not in the rig I posted. I'm not sure if I want to put it in there. It is pretty basic but took alot of cp weighting. I'm trying to keep the rig simple to use. I may set it up as a drag and drop shoulder rig.

 

I used a pose for the elbow because it's just a rotation of the bicep orient bones. Since I didn't use a hinge bone, using a null would get lost when switching to the different arm setups or I would have to have more than one.

 

Now that I posted the rig only model and installation instructions, maybe I'll get more feedback on the rig.

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For some reason this latest quicktime goes solid green after a half second. I tried a few times and got the same result.

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I just tested it and it works fine for me. If others are having problems, I'll rerender. Try saving it to your HD.

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I think Tarzan is on steroids.

Baseball players ....... Now 3D Characters!

Man what's happened to our Role Models.

.....have you broke the News to Jim Talbot about his Tarzan bein' Pumped!

 

LOL that image is Hilarious.

Just curious, is this due to Not having Scale to Z-Axis Only?

That coluld be a Desirable Result in some Cases? ..... Like the change from Banner to Hulk?

Is this reproducable?

 

Great Work! :D

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Here you go Mike. You might like this. And yes the z axis only is turned off. Yes it can be reproduced. I set it up using scale like constraints on the back bones to the spine controler. Then used an aim at on the controler to a null with scale to reach on. Did the same for the head and neck to the head controler.

 

trajcedrv, let me know how you make out installing it. I'd like to see some animation too.

 

strohbehn, were you able to see the movie file?

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LOL that's Great Mark.

 

Your Expriments are really looking promising!

 

Glad I could contribute! :)

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Very nice, although you seem to've missed a CP on the front, middle, sliiiightly to my left on his throat.

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Thanks Mr. Jaqe, you're right. It must have gotten messed up when I did the cp weighting (got weighted to a bone it shouldn't have).

 

The only problem right now is that when moving the null to animate you need to maintain an arc or the scale is not consistant. If I set it up like Johns rig (arms) with a parent bone and the null only moves in the Z-Axis to scale it and use the parent bone to animate, that will solve the problem. No big deal.

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Mark's Tarzan on steroids got me thinking...

 

Tarzan was the king of apes... now he is ape...

 

I had some time to play with shift- scaling of the bones and ol' Tarzan came out very ape-ish looking so I started scaling and re- scaling and than pulling CP's...

 

He turned out to be very ape - like... see for yourself

 

 

Drvarceto

post-43-1120025087.jpg

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And here is zip-ed project (around 500KB) that has embeded APED and Mark's rigged model, and two cameras in choreography...

 

Tarzan - ape model looks like mess when opened (I did not moved control bones), but it animates well

 

(Just hope that Jim Talbot won't be offended ;))

 

 

Drvarceto

 

p.s. It just came to me that I could do this in pose and add some growable hair... well maybe next time...

 

EDIT: zip is with the next message

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I hate when this happens!

 

My upload was timed - out (for some reason uploads take forever).

 

I am trying to upload rar file which is half the size (rar - archives should be ubiquous as zips - I hope)

Tarzan_APE.zip

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I am getting borring with this...

 

For some reason it managed to get zip file through... but I don't dare to edit that post for fear that something might go wrong.

 

Hope that somebody'll get some time to play with this...

 

and if (when) I manage to get Tarzan - ape tarzan pose slider there will be Dr.Tarzan - Mr. Ape animation!

 

;D

 

Drvarceto

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SOunds cool, Ill find time to play with Tarzan..

 

Michael

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I been experimenting with more spine control. Here's the test. Let me know what you think.

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I've seen it just yesterday (spinecontrol movie)

 

Looks good, though a bit fast for me (I had to see it frame by frame to figure it out)

 

 

drvarceto

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Scrub through it like you would in A:M, unless you don't have that option?

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