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mtpeak2

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Looks really nice!

:D

What have you done? two new fan bones?

Can you describe it a little?

Perhaps you have seen the WINK tutorials I have made on Smart Skinning and Fan Bones? Perhaps you want to tell us the nice things you are doing with the shoulders by using WINK? Here you can find a tutorial in eleven steps how to do it and my two WINK tutorials. You find it on Rodney´s SUPERB topic:

Useful Links (New!), Search First! Find available Info

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...indpost&p=99372

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First the shoulder has no cps assigned to it, although it can. The first spline ring of the arm is assigned to a fan bone which has a 50% orientation to the bicep bone. The shoulder bone has an aim at constraint to the hand target null with a 35% enforcement and an offset.

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The shoulder bone has an aim at constraint to the hand target null with a 35% enforcement and an offset.

 

This is cryptic to me! Why? What´s the good with it? How do you make an aim at constraint? - and an offset?

:unsure:

 

Can you add a little picture with some text and arrows

to let us understand it a little better? Are you using the 2001 A:M rig?

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Given the constraints that I just read--wouldn't that mean that shoulder movement is dependent on the placement of the hand and rotation of the bicep?

 

If the answer is yes then I'm not sure this will work in many cases. Similar to the finger solution of the AM rig. It works and is convenient, however, a lot of times it just doesn't get the job done the way you want. Could you post a simple shrug (hands and the sides and all)? And, describe any changes that had to be made.

 

Curiously yours.

 

J

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Josh

 

In this example I created 2 percentage poses, one for each shoulder, one translates the shoulder bone and the other adjusts the rotational offset.

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UH...when the shoulders go up should'nt the arms follow?

Not necessarily in this case...

If you look at thom from the side in this animation, I bet his elbows have a slight bend in them, thus giving them the "slack" so to speak to keep the hands where they are. that is if the elbows have a bend.... if not then this is an issue...

 

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

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You are correct Mike, there was a slight bend in the elbow. Here's the arms pulled tight.

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Nice. But this doesn't appear to be anything new? What's the deal?

Are you working on a new system or are you just showing us to get feedback on your work?

 

Are you smartskinning or fan?

 

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

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I've been using the 2001 rig and for me it is a new system, but for others it may not be. So, some feedback would be nice. It's the first time building my own rig and that's why I posted the other thread (which has been moved to this forum, thanks) to see what others like and don't like in a rig and try to bring it all together into one rig that is easy to install. I'm using single fan bones for the joint (easy install) and there is no smartskin or cp weighting.

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Some nice movement there that shows potential. Keep at it Mark.

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So is it the 2001 Rig modified or is it a new rig? I am interested as I have been working with the 2001 rig quite a bit as well and like it, but found the documentation sparse and confusing, so I've learned a lot on my own. I'd be interested in comparing notes.

 

Scott

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Well I started with the 2001 rig (Thom model), but deleted all relationships and control bones, so it was just a basic skeleton.

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I think those shoulders move pretty nicely! Looks good so far, can't wait to see what else you've got planned for it.

 

I've got one more suggestion, can you implement within the torso area "breathing" bones? My characters will be more realistic than not and this would give them that edge.

 

thanks..

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So this will be the 2005 rig?

Give us a little more meat on the bones - a picture - some text!

You are telling us this one will be easier to rig - you - we are to congratulate.

:D

Perhaps you can give us the rig to test ourselves?

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Seven, I doubt it will be the 2005 rig. Although, if they what to use it I don't have a problem with that, it's not up to me. It will be about the same to rig as the 2001 rig, but it will have more to it.

 

Nerrazzi, thanks. Breathing bones, we'll see about that. I was planning on some drag and drop add-ons, maybe that will be one of them.

 

I may have the basic rig up soon for people to test (no eyes or hands).

 

Now back to my constraints.

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I think it's ready for testing, no elbow targets, fingers or eyes yet.

 

It has IK hands lock/IK/FK arm blending. Basic shoulder setup, IK setups only. Shoulder shrug poses. IK/FK leg blending. Heel setup, IK setups only. Basic fan bones, all setups. body and head controlers (it's in one on/off pose and want to separate and blend). I think I covered all of it.

 

I'd like to here your comment and suggestions, good or bad. Thanks

 

 

 

[Edit] Model has been remove. Updated version below.

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OK, I posted this to find out what people thought of my rig, but I haven't heard one person comment on it, is it that bad? I guess so. I think it's time for me to stop posting anything on the forum, cause frankly I'm tired of being ignored . Sorry but I think this will be my last post to the forum. I'm sure that won't hurt too many feelings. Bye, it's been fun while it lasted.

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Mark,

I think maybe your posts just need a bit more exposure/advertisement.

Unless people are thinking specifically about rigging the Rigging & Relationships forum can be easily overlooked.

 

Hang in there. Please!

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Rodney, thanks for the concern, but I think noone else could care a less.

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It does get frustrating when you work hard and get no responses, I know the feeling well. However, maybe the twenty-two people that downloaded it (as of the time of this post) don't feel they can comment on the rig with anything that would be useful. I usually only comment if I am familiar with what is being presented. If the references are specific to rigs or methods that I only have a passing knowledge of, I generally leave it to those that would be able to answer more authoritatively. Also, maybe this post fell through the cracks a little and was missed by those who could give you an informed opinion...there are a lot of posts per day and I'm guilty of occasionally skipping a couple of days because I was unable to get onto the forums for whatever reason (it's hard to keep up sometimes, lots of posts per day).

 

I saw this thread a while back, but, I didn't see the last entry for whatever reason. I also roll my own rigs and (if I'm remembering correctly) this rig is based on the 2001 rig...that could be a reason why I haven't attempted to critique it since I have never used it.

 

I hope you'll reconsider leaving the forum, but, ultimately it's your decision. I'll download it and take a look...but, I'm not sure I can give you the most informed opinion. Give me a day or two to give it a good look, and I'll work it over.

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Well, 22 people did download it just a few days ago.

If I was one of them (which I wasn't - I missed your post) it would definitely take a few days to evaluate.

 

I'm just getting into (real) character rigging and I've got my official project coming up.

 

I know I'm not the only one interested in this stuff... It's just a bit over my head right now.

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Many understand your frustration.....you see how many downloads there are compared to responses....thats why even if I have no real feedback to give I try my best to at least say thank you......and I do thank you, I just DL'd and have not had a chance to check it out...I did view the movie of the breathing and I love the approch.

Also I swear that I miss a few posts when I use the "view new posts" Im not sure it gets everything......and I have been having troubles getting my replies to post lately..I click on add reply and noting happens for the lonest time..then it either sends or gives an error message...

 

Anyway I hope you come back, your efforts are appreciated by a few of us..you never know about the lurkers....

 

Michael

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OK, I posted this to find out what people thought of my rig, but I haven't heard one person comment on it, is it that bad? I guess so. I think it's time for me to stop posting anything on the forum, cause frankly I'm tired of being ignored . Sorry but I think this will be my last post to the forum. I'm sure that won't hurt too many feelings. Bye, it's been fun while it lasted.

Hey Mark, don't sweat it!!!!

I know what you're posting about! I put up a tutorial on using relationships to drive textures.

Took me like 2 weeks to put it together.

There were many many many downloads and I only had 1 or 2 people talk about it. And it was free!

 

I do think that there is a gap between people who understand and people who don't. The problem has to do with effort in many cases as it is very difficult to get to the point where you can judge a rig just by images or words, let alone trying it out.

 

I would say, post things with a grain of salt. Don't take it personally if you don't get the verbal feedback from the community. As if it were bad there are many here who are ready to point that stuff out before they would point out good stuff.

 

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

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Forgive our lack of response. I was one of the people that downloaded it and I just got a chance to play with it briefly. It is very functional and flexible. You can switch between all different kinds of modes with the sliding of a pose. The fan bones seem to work fairly well. I would love to spend some time going through and understanding all of the different relationships, especially the ones that allow you to go from IK to FK in the arms and the shoulder shrug pose.

I think you'll find that many of us (particularly the newbies) were intimidated by the sheer number of bones. I think if I took that and applied it to one of my characters, I would get a little lost. Its probably too much to ask for a list of geometry bones?

 

Many thanks for your efforts, I, for one appreciate it. I might try applying the upper body rig to my bee character (see the WIP section). It might be just the ticket.

 

Thanks again,

 

Scott

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OK, I posted this to find out what people thought of my rig, but I haven't heard one person comment on it, is it that bad? I guess so. I think it's time for me to stop posting anything on the forum, cause frankly I'm tired of being ignored . Sorry but I think this will be my last post to the forum. I'm sure that won't hurt too many feelings. Bye, it's been fun while it lasted.

 

mtpeak2 - I don't think anyone was ignoring you at all. I just noticed this thread today (I don't know why I missed it) and unfortunately I'm not at a computer where I'm able to DL and test it. I will once I get home, but keep in mind that because of work and schedules, sometimes it takes weeks (for me anyway) to check things out and have any meaningful thoughts (especially when it comes to rigging, which in and of itself is time-consuming). Also, I don't feel that I'm qualified enough to critique anyone else's work, but please don't take that as being ignored. As a matter of fact, I found this thread very interesting and I'm looking forward to checking it out.

 

Hang in there. I think we all appreciate the work that everyone contributes.

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mtpeak2 - I hope you're still here - I too missed this - Rigging is not a favorite task of mine - once I get locked into a scheme - I just want to "fergetta-abowdit".

 

I have an extensive library of actions based on my scheme - so its difficult to switch to something else. (Note to Utility-plug-in guys: would love some software/plugin - other than just a text find/replace, that includes skeletal hierarchy - that can do the mapping from one bone structure/naming/control scheme to another, and can also be applied to actions perhaps - that can create a new model, new action automatically)

 

So I've just downloaded it - because I do use a 2001 based rig, that I've whipped up myself, which I'm not all that thrilled about -

 

So from first glance I can see some very usefull things that I could incorporate into my scheme - but it also requires me to mod my actions - and yes it will take me some time to evaluate it - and wheither its worth all the effort it takes to change.

 

Also first glance - I would probably also make some pose sliders that incorporate Left/right stuff into one pose (no big deal) - love the individual control - but sometimes like less clutter ...

 

So thanks and hang in there - this looks promising...

 

(Also - haven't checked yet - but it would be nice to not have smartskin relationships if one is making a universal rig to be used in other models)

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I guess I didn't phrase it very well. What I mean is, i'm going to stop posting things that I want feedback on, that's all. I'll still be on the forum helping people if I can.

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Okay, Mark!

 

I can't say that I'm an expert on the 2001 rig, and I probably could do a lot more stress testing, but, it seems to work just fine. That's probably why you didn't have any responses, if there's anything wrong it's pretty nit-picky or matter of preference.

 

The one nit I'll pick is that I would prefer the shoulder to automatically move up when the elbow moves above the level of the shoulder when in FK. I know, it could be done manually...like I said, a very small nit. It would also cause the rig to be more complicated than it really needs to be...and might not be desired by most people (I'm strange).

 

It looks like a nice job to me...but, what do I know. Maybe someone with more experience with the 2001 rig can weigh in.

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mtpeak2, I know how you feel...

 

Once upon a time I posted (at least I thouht it was cool) model of Mickey Mouse and...

 

...

 

 

...

 

 

...

 

except for Rodney (thank you Rodney!) ... no responses... none at all...

 

One more thing! I really don't know how I missed your rig - i try to be selective in my reading, byt I always check rigging forum... must be those damn gremlins... I guess

Anyway, thanks for the rig, I'll try it when I get home.

 

Is it AM rig 2001 complatible, (so that the existing actions could be used)?

 

I'll try but I am curious at the moment...

 

trjcedrv

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Hi Mark,

 

Sorry but I totally missed this thread for a while too. I seem to have done nothing but rigging over the last few weeks and, after much trial and error and testing have decided I like a version of the 2001 rig with Mikes cog bones in certain joints. For the hands (fingers) I use a very simple set up of just 3 bones per finger and a pose slider on each finger. I am very keen to take a look at your solution so I have just downloaded your version of the rig. I will try and take a look tonight - sorry it's taken so long.

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itsjustme. First thing, I'm not sure if I can call it a version of the 2001 rig. I removed all control bones and relalationships and started from scratch. But I have been updating the rig which I added the balance setup from the 2001 rig, which I'm not sure if I'm going to keep. As for the FK setup, I didn't add the auto shoulder cause I figured that I would leave one of the setups with the manual shoulders. Thanks for the feedback.

 

trajcedrv. I did check to see if it is compatible with existing actions and it's not at the moment. The heel setup is causing a problem. I may be able to change a few null names to fix that or set the heel setup with an on/off pose. I'll look into it. Thanks.

 

Dalemation. At the moment I don't have the fingers setup, I'm not sure how I want to do it yet. I do plan on having the sliders for each finger though.

 

Nancy. The version you downloaded has no smartskin or weighted cps. I've been working on installing it in a more complex model to see how it works, so far so good, but I did do some minimal cp weighting on it (shoulders and abdomen areas) pretty basic. I've added an eye setup and a slider for elbow placement, still need to work on the hands.

 

Thanks everyone for the feedback. This is what I was looking for so I know what works and what doesn't. I started this for the community for an alternative to the other rigs out there and with not that much feedback I didn't thing people were interested in it and started to lose interest. We'll see about an update soon.

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Hi Mark,

 

I've now had a chance to test out the rig. It works very well. The rotate manipulator automatically appearing as a bone is clicked is useful. I'm likely showing my ignorance here but I don't get this on the version of the rig I use - how do you do this? :D

 

All the sliders work well and the 'shrug' is a handy feature. I will have another go tonight. I got so inspired last night that I quickly got back onto my own rigging and set up each finger in my characters hand in a different way in another effort to find what worked best. Btw, I knew you hadn't set up fingers on your rig yet, as you'd said, it was the rest of your rig that I was interested in seeing.

 

Anyway, great work. Keep it up as it really does benefit everyone. I'm as guilty as anyone with regard to not always replying/commenting on posts.

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I've now had a chance to test out the rig. It works very well. The rotate manipulator automatically appearing as a bone is clicked is useful. I'm likely showing my ignorance here but I don't get this on the version of the rig I use - how do you do this? :D

 

Thanks Dale. If you go into the bones properties, change the manipulator options to rotate only.

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Here's an update. I installed it in the Tarzan model to test it.

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I downloaded this one, but when i put it in an action, it looked goofy, almost like some CP's weren't attached. But when I went to check it out, there didn't seem to be any missing.

Any one else have this problem?

 

Scott

 

PS: Love the rig. Especially love the feet. Going to make animating walks easier than ever.

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Scott, I'm not sure about your problem, try redownloading. I checked it on my computer and it seems to work fine (new project). There is some cp weighting on the model, what version of A:M are you using? Can you upload a pic of the problem?

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Could be the CP weighting. I am running 10.5 (I'm hoping to ask for an upgrade for Christmas).

 

I'll try redownloading.

 

Scott

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Sorry Scott I don't have my 10.5 cd, my nephew has it.

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Scott, I found my cd, I thought my nephew had that version.

 

For some reason the breathing bone and the bicep orient bones rotations got messed up bringing it into 10.5, not sure why (rig built in 11.1) shouldn't have changed the bones orientation. The cp weights were fine. Here is a 10.5 version for anyone interested.

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Anyone ever find TSM's constraints coimng in conflict with the Relationship Constraints added by the User?

(i.e. User defined Relationship Constraints work until TSM's Relationship Constraints are turned on)

 

Any encounters with this ?

 

Any solutions?

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I'm not that familiar with the TSM rig. But I would have to say, don't add any relationships to the prerig skeleton only to bones that were added by you (fan bones).

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Yeah! I have had that...The only solution I resolved to was to re-rig using the AM 2001 skeleton and adding User defined constraints and relationships to my hearts content.

 

It might just be that adding User defined Constraints and Relationships might have no conflicts if done before the model is sent to TSM.

 

However I did just that. I went on a wonderful adventure, using a variation of the Eggington Rig/TSM and had problems animating. Could just be I missed a few things!! I can remember in one of Raf's earlier Rigs called The Raf setup v3.0 he had this sort of variation. Well their was Apply for Eggington-style Spine and Apply for Eggington-style feet.

 

So apart from your normally couple of Fanbone Constraints here and there, I just use the TSM Rig including Constraints as it is.

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