kkwaters
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Posts posted by kkwaters
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Another issue is flickering, the way direct X renders is a scale of planes that are viewable, i.e. scale of 1-100, 1 being closest rendered item, and 100 being farthest rendered item. when an item is close to another items plane space, it causes a render conflict. the result is a flicker between the two textures during movement/transition among the plane spaces. The only way I can resolve it is to have all of the model connected together spline wise. I cannot put a disconnected model in close proximity to another without flickering. This presents a huge challenge as far as modeling goes that is very inconvienent and creates alot of extra work for the modeler.
Another update to this flickering issue, I have found that a single piece of arcitecture will also flicker, shooting a hole in the single piece vs. not connected peices theory. The next theory I will try out is to make a continuous spline and see if that also flickers...
In the single spline test, I managed to break AM, and get the flicker problem there, so I have reported this to AM, and will see what comes of it.
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Another issue is flickering, the way direct X renders is a scale of planes that are viewable, i.e. scale of 1-100, 1 being closest rendered item, and 100 being farthest rendered item. when an item is close to another items plane space, it causes a render conflict. the result is a flicker between the two textures during movement/transition among the plane spaces. The only way I can resolve it is to have all of the model connected together spline wise. I cannot put a disconnected model in close proximity to another without flickering. This presents a huge challenge as far as modeling goes that is very inconvienent and creates alot of extra work for the modeler.
Another update to this flickering issue, I have found that a single piece of arcitecture will also flicker, shooting a hole in the single piece vs. not connected peices theory. The next theory I will try out is to make a continuous spline and see if that also flickers...
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Emilio,
I have a question about this, How are you applying the texures to the model? I only use 1 poly per patch, and can Xport them correctly, I think it may be related to the method of the application...
I had the same thing happen to a guitar model I recently built, however, when I reapplied the Txture it came out just dandy.
NOTE: I tested my model in AMTEXv13, from AMv13.0q. using 1 poly and also 16 poly, I chose to work with 16 polys and discovered the artifact problem you decribed in the 16 poly render, as well as my fix.
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"Animation Master:
A:M, from www.hash.com, is one of the easiest modeling and animation tools. It uses patches, so models can be exported at different polygon ‘densities’. Currently, the only exporting bug I know is the UV mapping of 5-point patches and hooks, so one should be aware of the use of these. Note that this is an internal A:M small bug and not the exporter’s fault – but I believe that this issue will be solved soon.
AMXTex:
This plugin from www.obsidiangames.com is really great. I have exported lots of models and animations without a glitch.
The only little bug I found so far is that exporting Right-Handed or Left-Handed .X models have the only effect of flipping the model’s normals. It does not “mirror” the object as expected.
Be aware that AMXTex exports constrains correctly, translating them to bone keyframes. This is not a bug, but a feature: however, if you export a partial animation, it’s best to turn OFF the rigs and constrains that involve other bones you don’t want to keyframe.
For instance, say you want to blend two different animations: A running animation (which keyframes all the bones) and a shooting animation (which should only keyframe the arms). If you export the Shooting animation with the leg rigs turned ON, the legs will be keyframed too. When trying to blend from one frame to another, the legs will try to blend to the standing position. The workaround is to turn OFF the rigs, and then delete any bone drivers that are automatically created after turning them off."
Very cool idea on using blended actions. Thank you. i beleive the left/right handed model works now in v13 of AmTex, I use it occasionally to add instant variety to our critters without a lot of hassles. Also, I do not trust 5 pt patches or Hooks at all when porting to DirectX any more as a general habbit. Our models try to be completely free of them, and Yes, it is a pain in the buttox to work around them. See my enchancement? Post for more info about AmTex use in game developement.
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Update:
We are building the map now that we have our mapeditor up and running. Level design is being done by our new recruit, Will W. (Ill Will). We have a total of 4 completed Critters, and a Main Character. We are working on a female character, and two more critters for an initial trial demo. It may be that we get as many as 15 Critters total for our completed demo. The Character creation UI is completed so the Main Char is configurable, and we can add/remove/change equipment within both the UI and the environment. Our inventory screen is up and working as well as the paper doll of the Main Char. We have a limited inventory, but it is fully functional so far. The Stat screen for the UI is also working, however we still need to flesh out the number mechanics to get it all working on that page. Things are progressing well for us, and it is starting to get pretty exciting. I cannnot wait to be playtesting our own game. The storyline is beginning to become important in order for us to build the proper critters/items/resources within the game. Our game plan mechanics have changed quite a bit to foster a more robust virtual economy. Everything will be real time exchanges of resources within the game, however prepaid accounts will be necessary to facilitate real time transactions within the game. We will also be having a FREE server so ppl can get familiar with the game and practice in that environment before they try the money servers. We have not decided if we are going to publish the game and sell it in stores, or if it is an online only download you can get for free. The later is how we hope to do it, however publishing the title for stores may be necessary for VC bean counters...
We are planning and currently working on Map objects such as trees, bushes, dungeon entrances/buildings, etc. Again, storyline is necessary for us to continue with these. We have peices of the plot already, however it is kind of fun to let the story tell itself as we build the game environment. Guy currently has a special guest in mind for the storyline creation, Will and I are waiting on pins and needles to find out if they accept the challenge.
Current Credits:
Guy R. - Programming/Concept
Victor W. - Art/Concept
Will W. - Level design/Assistant Programming
Amber W. - Real Life Modeling for Models & Actions
Special thanks so far: Martin hash & the Animation Master Team, Christopher Roy from Obsidian Games & the Amtex Plugin for AM, Riechert Software Engineering for TextureMaker.
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Yet another request.
The ability to lay multiple textures over the same surface in direct X. The ability to lay multiple layered textures would be a huge help in modeling, also having an edge blend diameter would help alot, although I can do the blending manually if necessary.
(take a looksee at WoW. The ground is consistently 3 texture overlays that are blended somehow.)
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Is it possible to have two sides of a texture showing in DX from an AmTex export? I see it done in WoW, where if you view the inside of their models, you can see the texture on that side as well. I would like to know how to do this with AMTex. The closest I can get so far is to create two models, and have the normals flipped in the second model and put it in the exact same postion as the other model. This generates double the CPs and creates unnecessary loads of CPs that bog down the models in our game we are making. It is not an apparent problem in the short term, but when you have lots of models loading all at once, the whole show grinds to a halt for several seconds at a time.
Another issue is flickering, the way direct X renders is a scale of planes that are viewable, i.e. scale of 1-100, 1 being closest rendered item, and 100 being farthest rendered item. when an item is close to another items plane space, it causes a render conflict. the result is a flicker between the two textures during movement/transition among the plane spaces. The only way I can resolve it is to have all of the model connected together spline wise. I cannot put a disconnected model in close proximity to another without flickering. This presents a huge challenge as far as modeling goes that is very inconvienent and creates alot of extra work for the modeler.
Another cool thing we would like to see is a mass action exporter for each model. We have anywhere from 32 to 128 actions per model, and would like to be able to expedite the export process. After we make changes to actions we export them and test them, each change requires a complete export of the model and actions, this gets to be a huge task between small changes and tweaks.
Also, this is an extreme request that I doubt will happen, but I will put it out there: Particle effects, materials, smartskin, simcloth, hair, etc. created in AM would be rather beautiful in a Dx Exporter as well. I believe it could flesh out the export to a level that would make AM/AmTex the premier tools for Dx model and action creations used in all forms of DX applications.
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I put an enhancement request on the AM tracker. I was hoping they would forward it to you.
I was asking for a way to mass export all the actions for each particular model. Basically, I have 30+ actions to port each time I make a small change to the model or any of the actions, this leads to extreme tedium reporting all of them several times an hour.
I tried this: Right CLick Actions folder > Export > (this is where AmTex would be?)
The other pluggins are there, so I was thinking this is the way to do it. Perhaps the ability to shift select the actions I want to port, then right click that selection and go to Export > (this is where AmTex would be)
Then have the popup window as which Dx model to port to. A concern would be memory management. If you port around 50 actions at 30-120 frames each, it could lock the system if it tries to eat the whole banana at once. I already have to open a group of actions, port each one, then close that group and open the next group, even at 30 actions per model. The groups I port at a time is about 8-10 open actions. (1gig RAM on my machine) I suspect it is a RAM limitation, and perhaps could be configurable to allow more ported at once if you have more RAM, and less if you are closer to the system requirements for AM, and AMTex.
If there is a better way to submit enhancement requests, please let me know.
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Hi Chris,
I use AMtex daily as well, I export my models and actions to DX this way.
My partner wrote a prog that animates and views them for me, I have seen some interest in a viewer/animator prog, so perhaps you two should talk shop.
I have found limitations that we have needed to apply to make things work in our favor.
we use 1 poly per patch, left-handed view consistantly to avoid model flipping and rear facing models, we have to avoid 5 point patches, creases, and keep the bone count very low as it eats up RAM really fast for our purposes.
It would be most sexy to be able to use higher functions in AM in Direct X, such as mucsles, smartskin, 5 point patches, springs, glow and particle effect, materials, hair, lightsourcing ported from chors & actions, animated textures, and such. No one has really focused on being able to do this for direct X that I know of. Having a high quality Xporter for not only AM, but any of the biggies would be nice, if AM could port to DX, then the big guys would have to port to AM to port to DX. I see a huge market potential there.
As an artist, I do not use Mac's, only PC. To answer your earlier poll for the mac port.
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Well good luck to you guys and I was thinking of two software pieces you guys could make to make your MMORPG better. One a world editor like in WCIII just for fun even if it does not tie into the game directly just like a secondary way of playing with friends and have it work with A:M models. Not just X exported models from A:M.
Also as another piece of software one that I would by in a heart beat especially if it is user friendly is an RPG maker that works with A:M directly to make it easy to make a full game with just that and A:M and it would make it easier to make cut scenes, and models, and the game engine itself...I know that this is a monumental task BUT if you have a programming guru at your disposal that works for free why not do it?
I know quite a few people who want to make their games but are not good at coding, so this would help bridge the gap. I myself have experience in game design even if it is not much experience and it would be a big help to have software like that, That would work hand and hand with A:M....But I also know that this is up to you guys and just an idea.
Oh and BTW don't give up when things get bad I know sometimes I have wanted to throw my comp through the wall and live in the woods just so I never have to see a computer screen again....But like me you will pull through and get the job done.....
I will run those ideas past my partner, and thank you. It would certainly cause us to deviate from our current goal, but who knows where this adventure will take us anyway...
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Anyone out here, besides us chickens?
San Diego, CA
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How many people came up with the true economy idea for MMORPGs at once? I've had this idea floating in my head for a while now, and now at least I know I'm not the only one looking for one of these.
By the way, you only have 3 guys working on an MMO? How long is that going to take you? Lol.
After all, I'm planning an MMORPG myself, several years from now anyways, and I'd like a good time guesstimate on how long 3 people will take to make a single MMORPG.... Give me a good idea how much time I need to set aside.....
My partner came up with the basic concept years ago. We started brainstorming after work hours about how to do it, and the potential of the idea. We began working on the first attempt in 2001. I left the job we were both working at, and dropped the ball. A year or so later, I called him out of the blue and told him I really want to make this a reality, so we started up at our second attempt. We began working part time after work, and soon I found myself working too much and not having enough time for the game. It was very frustrating. I finally made the jump to working on the game full time, and working on the side to support myself. My partner is helping me by letting me stay rent free at his place.
He is a machine when it comes to work, and when he gets home from a full time job, he puts in a ton of hours on his own time to do the game. He has a lot of experience in the software industry, and can plan projects from start to finish, without him - I would be totally lost and directionless. He does the programming, and I do the art. So far we make a great two man team. I have a friend who jumped on the wagon, but unfortunately he is behind financially, and is working hard to get solvent so he can start working with us part time. He also needs to improve his skills is either programming, or in AM. I had been teaching him AM, and it has been quite a struggle for the both of us to work together. However, none of us are giving up just yet, and no one has said we cannot do this, yet.
There are lots of great ideas out there about games like this, and I do believe it will be the future of games very soon. Unfortunately I have found a great idea does not constitute a game reality, so there is a lot of work, sacrifice, and more work just to make it real. The two of us really compliment each other well, and so far I have been working fulltime now for about 4 months. In this time we have achieved a monumental amount of work, and I still find it hard to believe how much we have accomplished so far compared to a major player such as Blizzard's World of Warcraft. They have hundreds of workers, and it boggles my mind to see how far we have come with only two people. There is a project Entropia as well, they only have 5 people for their developer house in Sweden, and they are already a major player in MMORPG as they already have a virtual economy.
We are already about 1/2 done for the demo phase, (I think). Once our demo is ready we will begin pursuing venture capital to build our own full developer house, or just sell the work we have already and walk away. I think we will probably stick with the project, and build our empire from there. I know this method is how Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and a whole host of other successes got started, so I feel we are on the right track with this. And like I said before, no one has told us we cannot do this, so until they do - balls to the wall!
Heh, so true man... Unfortunately, you actualy have someone to help ya with. Right now it's just me doing everything but the website, and I dont even have everything, I'm financially busted right now. But, I'm learnin AM, and if I may say so at a decent enough rate, and in my spare time I'm writing up the scripts and ideas for the toons I'll be starting off on (unless, like you, I can find a programmer guru, lol). Either way I've often been commented positively on the idea, even though no one lifts a finger to help...
But, indeed... Good luck with it.
Wish you guys woulda answered yes to my proposal... But, eh, guess everyone has to start their own way.... Where as you guys start off with the MMO, we (What little team I have) will be starting off slowly and building our way up, due to being financially ****ed....
But, to each his own...
Good luck with it, and meet ya at the top, heh.
How many people came up with the true economy idea for MMORPGs at once? I've had this idea floating in my head for a while now, and now at least I know I'm not the only one looking for one of these.
By the way, you only have 3 guys working on an MMO? How long is that going to take you? Lol.
After all, I'm planning an MMORPG myself, several years from now anyways, and I'd like a good time guesstimate on how long 3 people will take to make a single MMORPG.... Give me a good idea how much time I need to set aside.....
My partner came up with the basic concept years ago. We started brainstorming after work hours about how to do it, and the potential of the idea. We began working on the first attempt in 2001. I left the job we were both working at, and dropped the ball. A year or so later, I called him out of the blue and told him I really want to make this a reality, so we started up at our second attempt. We began working part time after work, and soon I found myself working too much and not having enough time for the game. It was very frustrating. I finally made the jump to working on the game full time, and working on the side to support myself. My partner is helping me by letting me stay rent free at his place.
He is a machine when it comes to work, and when he gets home from a full time job, he puts in a ton of hours on his own time to do the game. He has a lot of experience in the software industry, and can plan projects from start to finish, without him - I would be totally lost and directionless. He does the programming, and I do the art. So far we make a great two man team. I have a friend who jumped on the wagon, but unfortunately he is behind financially, and is working hard to get solvent so he can start working with us part time. He also needs to improve his skills is either programming, or in AM. I had been teaching him AM, and it has been quite a struggle for the both of us to work together. However, none of us are giving up just yet, and no one has said we cannot do this, yet.
There are lots of great ideas out there about games like this, and I do believe it will be the future of games very soon. Unfortunately I have found a great idea does not constitute a game reality, so there is a lot of work, sacrifice, and more work just to make it real. The two of us really compliment each other well, and so far I have been working fulltime now for about 4 months. In this time we have achieved a monumental amount of work, and I still find it hard to believe how much we have accomplished so far compared to a major player such as Blizzard's World of Warcraft. They have hundreds of workers, and it boggles my mind to see how far we have come with only two people. There is a project Entropia as well, they only have 5 people for their developer house in Sweden, and they are already a major player in MMORPG as they already have a virtual economy.
We are already about 1/2 done for the demo phase, (I think). Once our demo is ready we will begin pursuing venture capital to build our own full developer house, or just sell the work we have already and walk away. I think we will probably stick with the project, and build our empire from there. I know this method is how Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and a whole host of other successes got started, so I feel we are on the right track with this. And like I said before, no one has told us we cannot do this, so until they do - balls to the wall!
Heh, so true man... Unfortunately, you actualy have someone to help ya with. Right now it's just me doing everything but the website, and I dont even have everything, I'm financially busted right now. But, I'm learnin AM, and if I may say so at a decent enough rate, and in my spare time I'm writing up the scripts and ideas for the toons I'll be starting off on (unless, like you, I can find a programmer guru, lol). Either way I've often been commented positively on the idea, even though no one lifts a finger to help...
But, indeed... Good luck with it.
Wish you guys woulda answered yes to my proposal... But, eh, guess everyone has to start their own way.... Where as you guys start off with the MMO, we (What little team I have) will be starting off slowly and building our way up, due to being financially ****ed....
But, to each his own...
Good luck with it, and meet ya at the top, heh.
I have met a few people who program and are interested, but we cannot use them right now ourselves, if you like I will gather their contact info and send them your way.
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Hey do any of you guys know if 3D max is compatible with AM?I am asking this becouse i want to import a model from 3D max into AM.
Once, I tried to export to 3Ds, all I got was CP's translated, with triangle patches, not splines and patches - much to my dismay. I have not successfully imported a 3ds file. That was about a year ago, so perhaps 3DS has gotten better at exportations, as well as AM.
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I want to use the generic color of a group with a see through bump map that is with the color, all of this is fine is regular AM, but with the AMTEX pluggin from Obsidian Games, I want this to render in direct X format. The problem is this, so far I cannot overlap textures in the X files, it is either a color or a bit map texture. Is there a feature that allows bump maps that can also retain a texture? I know this may not be the proper place to post this question, however I could not find a forum for Amtex users by Obsidian, so I went to the next best place, hoping other users of AM know how to do this trick.
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so hes going to be naked other than the tie
looks greatSo - What's wrong with naked? Why, I try to go naked as often as the cops will let me. : )
Just Kidding around. Your model looks great, and is very expressive.
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"It's better that you UV-MAP (decal) the patches before duplicating. This way you'll get both the front and back patches textured correctly. And most .x importing apps (fragmotion, 3dgs...) will be able to weld the duplicate CPs (vertex) into one, still preserving the backfaces, so the number of final vertices will not be doubled. The faces will be doubled, tho - but that's the way it works: one polygon for front, another for back."
I'm using the AMTEX util to export to X file. And there are no settings to use to weld the CP's is this something that will occur automatically if the CP's are close enough to each other?
Or even in the exact same spot as the original CP's?
When you mentioned importing, Im a bit concerned, as we have a modified X file viewer based on the AMtex viewer, but it is a custom build, and inside our game the engine is a custom build, do I need to get my programmer to make changes to accomidate welding the CP's?
Thank you for your input this has already helped imensely.
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Well you know im not bad my self at doing models in A:M. You need some more people to help you out making models i think i would be a great help. I'm looking for a job as a modeler right now.
Well, we do not have a payroll right now, so it may be premature. I will keep you in mind.
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How many people came up with the true economy idea for MMORPGs at once? I've had this idea floating in my head for a while now, and now at least I know I'm not the only one looking for one of these.
By the way, you only have 3 guys working on an MMO? How long is that going to take you? Lol.
After all, I'm planning an MMORPG myself, several years from now anyways, and I'd like a good time guesstimate on how long 3 people will take to make a single MMORPG.... Give me a good idea how much time I need to set aside.....
My partner came up with the basic concept years ago. We started brainstorming after work hours about how to do it, and the potential of the idea. We began working on the first attempt in 2001. I left the job we were both working at, and dropped the ball. A year or so later, I called him out of the blue and told him I really want to make this a reality, so we started up at our second attempt. We began working part time after work, and soon I found myself working too much and not having enough time for the game. It was very frustrating. I finally made the jump to working on the game full time, and working on the side to support myself. My partner is helping me by letting me stay rent free at his place.
He is a machine when it comes to work, and when he gets home from a full time job, he puts in a ton of hours on his own time to do the game. He has a lot of experience in the software industry, and can plan projects from start to finish, without him - I would be totally lost and directionless. He does the programming, and I do the art. So far we make a great two man team. I have a friend who jumped on the wagon, but unfortunately he is behind financially, and is working hard to get solvent so he can start working with us part time. He also needs to improve his skills is either programming, or in AM. I had been teaching him AM, and it has been quite a struggle for the both of us to work together. However, none of us are giving up just yet, and no one has said we cannot do this, yet.
There are lots of great ideas out there about games like this, and I do believe it will be the future of games very soon. Unfortunately I have found a great idea does not constitute a game reality, so there is a lot of work, sacrifice, and more work just to make it real. The two of us really compliment each other well, and so far I have been working fulltime now for about 4 months. In this time we have achieved a monumental amount of work, and I still find it hard to believe how much we have accomplished so far compared to a major player such as Blizzard's World of Warcraft. They have hundreds of workers, and it boggles my mind to see how far we have come with only two people. There is a project Entropia as well, they only have 5 people for their developer house in Sweden, and they are already a major player in MMORPG as they already have a virtual economy.
We are already about 1/2 done for the demo phase, (I think). Once our demo is ready we will begin pursuing venture capital to build our own full developer house, or just sell the work we have already and walk away. I think we will probably stick with the project, and build our empire from there. I know this method is how Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and a whole host of other successes got started, so I feel we are on the right track with this. And like I said before, no one has told us we cannot do this, so until they do - balls to the wall!
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Also, they could be prioritized by how old the last post to the WIP is.
That's how all the threads on this forum work.
Oh. "open mouth, insert foot, chew vigorsously"
Well, um keep up the good work! You guys are amazing! I wish I could do that kind of stuff that fast!
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I doubt the current forums allow for any sort of "content tagging," but one method might be to add keywords to the existing thread titles. I'm open to other suggestions.
Incidentally, have you considered the possibility that many WIPs are, by their nature, difficult to categorize? I mean, we're talking about a huge forum full of half-finished models, abandoned projects and quickie test renders, here. Kind of hard to label.
I have considered that. I suggest WIP be categorized by level of development, giving the most exposure to the projects that have the most work put into them. Raw models, Rendered AVI's, Actions on models, Full Choreographs, Riggs, Textured Models, etc. to allow ease of picking where you want to see examples of progress for WIP's in each area of development. If a WIP has several categories, then perhaps a shortcut back to the original Post, and let the threads go where they will. Also, they could be prioritized by how old the last post to the WIP is. So stagnant projects would find themselves in the back of the line, while current projects would stay up on top. This may be more effective a way to categorize, rather than by artistic content, or story content for the AVI's. I would love to say this was what I was aiming at originally, but it is not the case. It is just the latest thought given to these posts.
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I would be curious if you continue to use the .X format for your models for your game. I am currently trying to do that, but am running into a common problem with the .X format - it only *really* supports texture maps - no bump maps, specular maps, etc.
I would be curious to find out how people who are using the directx .X format handle these issues. (I can store them in a seperate location outside .X, but that seems like a waste to me)...
Arthur
Granted Direct X is very limited, we are still using it. as far as workarounds, our models are built to fit the 1 poly per patch, so no 5 point patches, watch out for creases, and the textures contain "bumps" via Texture Maker. Specular lighting I will have to ask my partner about, he is currently out of the country.
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Only the Hash crew can say for sure, but a few hours a day should suffice, as long as it's every day, y'know? The WIP forum never rests.
I don't know how much support you'd get for arranging the WIP area into subsections, however. There are many long-time forum users who felt that even six sub-forums was too many, let alone the 30+ we have now. Moreover, the Hash forums were heavily consolidated just a few months ago, so the trend is definitely for fewer sections, not more.
So you might have to rely on an alternate means of categorization, if the job were given to you.
What other means of categorization are available to use?
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Did you just volunteer to moderate the WIP forum?
It most definitely sounded like you did.
Ouch. OK.
I comprehend the situation. Seriously, How much time would be involved moderating that topic? I am available for 2 hours an evening to moderate it, do you think that would be enough? I would love to help out the Hash community.
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There are over 154 pages of WIP's. Could you please sub categorize them? That way we could browse the older ones that are still being active right up with the new stuff, all in each sub category, such as: just models, models for free, Animated sequences, actions on models, that sort of thing.
Plz.
Direct x Export HELP?
in Game Development
Posted
try turning off bonew weights in the export window. If not that, try an uninstall and reinstall of AM, the Amtex and try again. I have had alot of similar issues that a reinstall fixed miraculously. (Ghost in the machine)